Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

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reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby reohn2 » 4 Apr 2019, 2:48pm

mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:You've never worked out of a van on site have you?

Yes, including in London and Manchester, but relatively rarely and not recently. Have you and, if so, did you feel parking illegally and dangerously was a safe working practice?

Running my own business(joinery and construction) I worked out of LWB Transits almost every working day for 25 years,and sometimes I'd simply have to park in awkward and illegal sitiuations to either load or unload,if only for a short time.
I totally disagree that the van in the faecesbook clip was parked dangerously,awkwardly yes but sometimes it's unavoidable to carry out the work,as PWA posted and with which I concur,if everyone is careful it needn't be a dangeous siuation.
The world isn't perfect and whilst it'd be nice if it were,until then we'll all have to manage with it as it is.
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thelawnet
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby thelawnet » 4 Apr 2019, 3:06pm

reohn2 wrote:I totally disagree that the van in the faecesbook clip was parked dangerously,awkwardly yes but sometimes it's unavoidable to carry out the work,as PWA posted and with which I concur,if everyone is careful it needn't be a dangeous siuation.


? It was Twatter.

reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby reohn2 » 4 Apr 2019, 3:22pm

thelawnet wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I totally disagree that the van in the faecesbook clip was parked dangerously,awkwardly yes but sometimes it's unavoidable to carry out the work,as PWA posted and with which I concur,if everyone is careful it needn't be a dangeous siuation.


? It was Twatter.

Same difference :wink:
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paddler
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby paddler » 4 Apr 2019, 4:54pm

reohn2 wrote:
mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:You've never worked out of a van on site have you?

Yes, including in London and Manchester, but relatively rarely and not recently. Have you and, if so, did you feel parking illegally and dangerously was a safe working practice?

Running my own business(joinery and construction) I worked out of LWB Transits almost every working day for 25 years,and sometimes I'd simply have to park in awkward and illegal sitiuations to either load or unload,if only for a short time.
I totally disagree that the van in the faecesbook clip was parked dangerously,awkwardly yes but sometimes it's unavoidable to carry out the work,as PWA posted and with which I concur,if everyone is careful it needn't be a dangeous siuation.
The world isn't perfect and whilst it'd be nice if it were,until then we'll all have to manage with it as it is.


Quite agree. As telephone engineers we had all the requisite roadworks guarding courses over the last twenty years or so.

We quickly worked out that, if we followed the rules to the letter we would have to have four way traffic lights at one of our cabinets next to a roundabout.

Plenty of cabinets and poles in awkward situations. As you rightly say, you just have to work as safely as you can and be ready to clear the site quickly if required.

Pete Owens
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby Pete Owens » 4 Apr 2019, 6:23pm

Paulatic wrote:
bigjim wrote:I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. Carry on with your day. :) He is entitled to be there, just doing his, at times, difficult, job.


and if you can’t take the lane https://twitter.com/jfparis/status/1113 ... 55616?s=20


Yet another example of the problems that that are inevitable when the half baked ideas of segregationists come into contact with the real world.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 4 Apr 2019, 7:38pm

paddler wrote: We quickly worked out that, if we followed the rules to the letter we would have to have four way traffic lights at one of our cabinets next to a roundabout...


...and that has a cost, both financial and in terms of effort, and most organisations and individuals would rather not expend either commodity.

To avoid following the correct and lawful procedures is not a noble thing, and is morally and legally unjustifiable. People do what they do in these circumstances because they can't be arrissed, and they're very unlikely to suffer any adverse consequences, and that's the bottom line. Having done so they then make up weak excuses for their actions, instead of simply being honest.
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paddler
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby paddler » 4 Apr 2019, 9:47pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:
paddler wrote: We quickly worked out that, if we followed the rules to the letter we would have to have four way traffic lights at one of our cabinets next to a roundabout...


...and that has a cost, both financial and in terms of effort, and most organisations and individuals would rather not expend either commodity.

To avoid following the correct and lawful procedures is not a noble thing, and is morally and legally unjustifiable. People do what they do in these circumstances because they can't be arrissed, and they're very unlikely to suffer any adverse consequences, and that's the bottom line. Having done so they then make up weak excuses for their actions, instead of simply being honest.


Nice. Very high minded. But, since I didn’t explain the situation at that cabinet, you have criticised from a position of ignorance.

If you had asked. I would have explained. But now? Nah. I don’t need to justify myself to you.

And I am no defender of BT. But a huge amount of their plant which now falls foul of stricter rules require multiple visits over weeks, and cabinets easily get a visit a day due to fibre connections. Rightly or wrongly they are not going to spend huge amounts moving that plant.

pwa
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby pwa » 4 Apr 2019, 10:04pm

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:It looks like the main reason for parking there was they hadn't brought a long enough hose for the job.

If you had been doing that bloke's job, how would you have parked? Assume for a moment that he really needs the van close by. The street has been laid out to make it as awkward as possible for him, but he still has to do his job. Your point of view is blinkered.

Talk about blinkered yourself! Just beyond the front of the van is a gate into a service yard for those properties, visible on the video. I suspect the rear access could be used, or else a slightly longer hose along the front wall.

If a longer hose is not possible for some reason, then it needs a temporary traffic management order to close part of the road, with barriers and/or cones around the obstruction. There is no excuse for putting workers and, yes, cyclists in danger by cutting corners like that. The job should be done properly. This stuff should be obvious IMO and I don't understand why this country tolerates this awful drive/park-anywhere culture.

You don't know whether the tradesman could access the property he was working in from the yard at the rear, or whether the yard at the rear was related to that property in any way. If I were that tradesman I would much prefer a nice quiet yard to park in rather than some very awkward spot on a very congested street. Parking on the street like that is what one would do as a last resort.

You sound like someone who works from a desk and has no sympathy with people who have to cart stuff round in vans to do their work. So long as they don't get in your way you are happy. If they can't get their job done, tough.

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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Apr 2019, 5:57am

reohn2 wrote:
mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:You've never worked out of a van on site have you?

Yes, including in London and Manchester, but relatively rarely and not recently. Have you and, if so, did you feel parking illegally and dangerously was a safe working practice?

Running my own business(joinery and construction) I worked out of LWB Transits almost every working day for 25 years,and sometimes I'd simply have to park in awkward and illegal sitiuations to either load or unload,if only for a short time.
..

Had to park illegally? :( Did you get a lot of parking tickets, was your vehicle often towed away?
I see vehicles parked illegally cos the drivers are too lazy or do not think
One could use a trolley to transport the stuff, takes a bit more time so the bill can be adjusted upwards, +1!
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londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby londonbikerider » 5 Apr 2019, 8:04am

Image

I had no idea this could have spiralled downwards to this extend.

Would be nice if people would read all the messages -yes this includes Graham the moderator, whom had already made up his mind before reading all the posts- as I am not for starting a war cyclists/drivers. I'm just a guy who, can you please read what I said already?, had over-estimated his rights when riding in a cycle lane.

Never happened to me to be called "a nuisance" or "suspicious" or "reticent", in fact wouldn't be better to put a sticky post asking for a full explanation -Police Station style- when debating accidents or collisions? I'm fairly new to the forum and I had no idea there were such strict rules here, either way I have admitted to not be fully right, so the things should be over thank you.

londonbikerider wrote:3 Apr 2019, 8:36am
... I appreciated some of the comments above, they have been helpful.
Like said already, I was considering an action as reporting the driver in the first post, then I have got to know I have been somewhat wrong by over-estimating my rights. I'd like to end this here, there seems to be very little more to do, the lesson has been learned.

londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby londonbikerider » 5 Apr 2019, 8:20am

Graham wrote:(snip)
<< Edit : Graham : your descriptions to date were so vague as to cause a mite of annoyance. And this is the internet, where unguarded emotional responses are often encountered. >>


Sorry to go back on this, but so far, I see the "emotional response" has gone far ahead from my OP. And it wasn't me.
Had you bothered to read all my posts, you would have seen that I had tried to give a decent explanation, and after some useful replies -again, had you bothered to read- there was no more to add as the situation went from "suspicious" to "It may be part my fault, I never argued and won't carry on either".
Please try to see thew whole picture, and not treat people as if they wre children. This is the internet, we're adults and we should try to understand each other before using the Censorship Scissors.
Thank you.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 5 Apr 2019, 8:24am

Nice. Very high minded. But, since I didn’t explain the situation at that cabinet, you have criticised from a position of ignorance.

If you had asked. I would have explained. But now? Nah. I don’t need to justify myself to you.

And I am no defender of BT. But a huge amount of their plant which now falls foul of stricter rules require multiple visits over weeks, and cabinets easily get a visit a day due to fibre connections. Rightly or wrongly they are not going to spend huge amounts moving that plant.


Position of ignorance? I spent nearly 30 years in a job prosecuting people who thought it was ok to dump a van or lorry wherever they wanted without regard to the consequences, just because they happened to be working there.

Sorry, but there are laws and regulations that govern such activity, and it's not acceptable to ignore them for the sake of commercial expedience. The regs exist to maintain traffic flow and protect pedestrian and road user safety, and it's the people that think they can ignore them that are high minded.
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby Vorpal » 5 Apr 2019, 8:29am

One can hardly transport a heavy toolbox and building supplies a half mile (or more!) on busy streets with a trolley. Yes, other alternatives are available, but British streets are, for the most part not designed to allow that sort of thing. They are designed for motor vehicle transport, and yes, parking in a way that is sometimes hazardous for vulnerable users.

This is complicated in towns and villages that still have medieval centres, and no easy way to add trade entrances or rear access to buildings. Modern buildings and estates should absolutely be built with vulnerable users in mind, but it is often merely lip service.

That's one of the many (motor-centric) reasons that cycle lanes are often installed the way they are, with dashed white lines, and no double yellow lines to make it illegal to park there. Because there is an almost designed-in necessity for someone to park there, at least occasionally.

When it proves to be a problem, then they change, make it illegal to park there, and (occasionally) prosecute someone for it, but they still havneæt changed the need or provided decent alternatives.

It hardly matters whether one wants the cycle lanes there or not. These sorts of issues will still occur. The problem is the design basis.
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby Vorpal » 5 Apr 2019, 8:30am

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Sorry, but there are laws and regulations that govern such activity, and it's not acceptable to ignore them for the sake of commercial expedience. The regs exist to maintain traffic flow and protect pedestrian and road user safety, and it's the people that think they can ignore them that are high minded.

You could stop at 'the regs exist to maintain traffic flow' and you'd be closer to right.
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reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Postby reohn2 » 5 Apr 2019, 8:43am

brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Running my own business(joinery and construction) I worked out of LWB Transits almost every working day for 25 years,and sometimes I'd simply have to park in awkward and illegal sitiuations to either load or unload,if only for a short time.
..

Had to park illegally? :( Did you get a lot of parking tickets, was your vehicle often towed away?
I see vehicles parked illegally cos the drivers are too lazy or do not think

No,only ever had one parking ticket for oversaying 10mins in 20min zone and that was in the car nothing to do with work.
The illegal parking would be because there was no alternative
One could use a trolley to transport the stuff, takes a bit more time so the bill can be adjusted upwards, +1

I just lurv these guys who've never done the job but can tell everyone else how to do their's :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by reohn2 on 5 Apr 2019, 9:03am, edited 1 time in total.
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