Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

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bigjim
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by bigjim »

I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. Carry on with your day. :) He is entitled to be there, just doing his, at times, difficult, job.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by Tangled Metal »

bigjim wrote:I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. Carry on with your day. :) He is entitled to be there, just doing his, at times, difficult, job.

This!

Bear in mind what unloading a vehicle with other vehicles driving past you might be like. If you were hit by a cyclist or a car doing your job would you be a little loud on voicing your opinion? It can't be a nice job at the best of times and risking being hit by traffic doesn't help.

IMHO of your road position and speed is right you should minimise risks of hitting anyone bar the unexpected. A stationary truck with people loading / unloading? Clear risk and clear to me how to avoid issues. Take the road at least a door and half width from the car, practically in the middle of the road. If the scaffolder hits you from that distance then it is their fault. Less distance given them then it's probably your fault.

Think of it like a car and a cyclist. A close pass isn't the cyclist's fault, is it?
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Still sounds a bit strange to me! I’m always concerned when people complain and are then reticent about the actual details. I’m not sure how touching someone’s shoulder constitutes a collision! Call me suspicious, but.....
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drossall
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by drossall »

I go past there every day, heading from Finsbury Park station to Angel. You're right, there are often lorries parked there. It's a nuisance in the bike lane, but it's hard to see what else they can do. The consequence is traffic squeezing past, with little room to get a bike past the lorry (and you don't want to go outside the traffic because of getting back across the lane before reaching the lights, a few metres up the road). I generally avoid the issue by turning left into Horsell Road and using the bike crossing between Fieldway Road and Madras Place. Don't think I've ever been in danger of colliding with anyone, even if I did go past the lorry.
londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by londonbikerider »

[quote"Phil Fouracre"]Still sounds a bit strange to me! I’m always concerned when people complain and are then reticent about the actual details. I’m not sure how touching someone’s shoulder constitutes a collision! Call me suspicious, but.....
[/quote]

Truth is, this guy had a lorry parked in a place where did caused more than just "nuisance", actually danger because the road was narrow AND it was peak time.
A better approach would be to put some signal cones before the vehicle, right away after stopping.
There was more than one reason to be careful when choosing a spot for doing a job, whether this is compulsory by law or not, the debate can go on and on. And that is the very reason why I did not argue at the moment, nor I did in my original post.

The "collision" happened because the guy came off swiftly past the lorry without watching for incoming traffic.
There have been no consequences because I was already slowing down, I may have done something wrong like preventing this, but that implies thinking ahead of someone else's mistake, isn't it? Yet, if you see my posts before, I didn't argue with this and I implicitly assumed my responsibility by saying that I have been overestimating my rights.

Hope this satisfies you curiosity.

(sorry for the multiple edit)
<< Edit : Graham : your descriptions to date were so vague as to cause a mite of annoyance. And this is the internet, where unguarded emotional responses are often encountered. >>
Last edited by Graham on 3 Apr 2019, 9:06am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by londonbikerider on 5 Apr 2019, 8:19am, edited 4 times in total.
londonbikerider
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by londonbikerider »

bigjim wrote:I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. ..


The problem is: I was already off the cycle lane and looking around for all the other vechicles, the driver came into sight very quickly from behind the lorry, there was very little time for an evasive manouvre.
I did what I could, he didn't. I didn't argue, he did.

Quick edit: I appreciated some of the comments above, they have been helpful.
Like said already, I was considering an action as reporting the driver in the first post, then I have got to know I have been somewhat wrong by over-estimating my rights. I'd like to end this here, there seems to be very little more to do, the lesson has been learned.
thirdcrank
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by thirdcrank »

When something broadly similar happened to me - no collision or contact but a self-righteous "professional" driver giving it "You should of done this, you should of done that.." - the traffic was pretty much jammed. I was riding on the inside of the standing traffic and that meant riding on the offside of the parked truck. Parked, incidentally where it was no parking, no loading at all, at all. :lol: The driver - who I think had been doing something like buying fags rather than loading/unloading - presumably assumed that as the gap down the offside of his truck was too narrow for another truck to be driven there would be nothing else coming. I cannot now remember why the driver reacted in such a self-righteous way: when he first appeared round the truck he was looking the other way and eventually seeing me made him jump.


(No parking at all, at all = Frank Carson ?)
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Paulatic
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by Paulatic »

bigjim wrote:I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. Carry on with your day. :) He is entitled to be there, just doing his, at times, difficult, job.


and if you can’t take the lane https://twitter.com/jfparis/status/1113 ... 55616?s=20
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pwa
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by pwa »

Paulatic wrote:
bigjim wrote:I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. Carry on with your day. :) He is entitled to be there, just doing his, at times, difficult, job.


and if you can’t take the lane https://twitter.com/jfparis/status/1113 ... 55616?s=20

That is a good example. My analysis of that is that both parties should have been taking care. The van driver did look like he might be about to dart out but he did check himself and got it right in the end. The cyclist should have been looking out for the van driver doing what he nearly did. As for the van parking where it did, maybe there was no reasonable alternative. It looks to me like he has positioned that vehicle as considerately as possible, leaving a good gap for pedestrians and cyclists, and not blocking what could be a bus route. Clearly there was a job going on there. I don't see any villains in that situation, just two people who had reason to take care.
reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
bigjim wrote:I don't see the problem. Just go round him, taking the lane. Carry on with your day. :) He is entitled to be there, just doing his, at times, difficult, job.


and if you can’t take the lane https://twitter.com/jfparis/status/1113 ... 55616?s=20

That is a good example. My analysis of that is that both parties should have been taking care. The van driver did look like he might be about to dart out but he did check himself and got it right in the end. The cyclist should have been looking out for the van driver doing what he nearly did. As for the van parking where it did, maybe there was no reasonable alternative. It looks to me like he has positioned that vehicle as considerately as possible, leaving a good gap for pedestrians and cyclists, and not blocking what could be a bus route. Clearly there was a job going on there. I don't see any villains in that situation, just two people who had reason to take care.

+1.
But the more militant cyclist will simply say the van shouldn't have parked there,when as you say there was no alternative and it was the responsibility of both parties to take care.
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mjr
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote:As for the van parking where it did, maybe there was no reasonable alternative.

Maybe he knows that no matter where he parks, someone will be along to excuse him. Motorists first! They pay road tax and might makes right(!)

reohn2 wrote:+1.
But the more militant cyclist will simply say the van shouldn't have parked there,when as you say there was no alternative and it was the responsibility of both parties to take care.

There's always an alternative. Yes, it's the responsibility of both parties to take care and that includes the motorist not parking like a xxxx. So anyone expecting even the basic competence of legal parking is now a militant?!? How far we have fallen...

It looks like the main reason for parking there was they hadn't brought a long enough hose for the job.
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pwa
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by pwa »

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:As for the van parking where it did, maybe there was no reasonable alternative.

Maybe he knows that no matter where he parks, someone will be along to excuse him. Motorists first! They pay road tax and might makes right(!)

reohn2 wrote:+1.
But the more militant cyclist will simply say the van shouldn't have parked there,when as you say there was no alternative and it was the responsibility of both parties to take care.

There's always an alternative. Yes, it's the responsibility of both parties to take care and that includes the motorist not parking like a xxxx. So anyone expecting even the basic competence of legal parking is now a militant?!? How far we have fallen...

It looks like the main reason for parking there was they hadn't brought a long enough hose for the job.

If you had been doing that bloke's job, how would you have parked? Assume for a moment that he really needs the van close by. The street has been laid out to make it as awkward as possible for him, but he still has to do his job. Your point of view is blinkered.
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:It looks like the main reason for parking there was they hadn't brought a long enough hose for the job.

If you had been doing that bloke's job, how would you have parked? Assume for a moment that he really needs the van close by. The street has been laid out to make it as awkward as possible for him, but he still has to do his job. Your point of view is blinkered.

Talk about blinkered yourself! Just beyond the front of the van is a gate into a service yard for those properties, visible on the video. I suspect the rear access could be used, or else a slightly longer hose along the front wall.

If a longer hose is not possible for some reason, then it needs a temporary traffic management order to close part of the road, with barriers and/or cones around the obstruction. There is no excuse for putting workers and, yes, cyclists in danger by cutting corners like that. The job should be done properly. This stuff should be obvious IMO and I don't understand why this country tolerates this awful drive/park-anywhere culture.
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reohn2
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by reohn2 »

mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:As for the van parking where it did, maybe there was no reasonable alternative.

Maybe he knows that no matter where he parks, someone will be along to excuse him. Motorists first! They pay road tax and might makes right(!)

reohn2 wrote:+1.
But the more militant cyclist will simply say the van shouldn't have parked there,when as you say there was no alternative and it was the responsibility of both parties to take care.

There's always an alternative. Yes, it's the responsibility of both parties to take care and that includes the motorist not parking like a xxxx. So anyone expecting even the basic competence of legal parking is now a militant?!? How far we have fallen...

It looks like the main reason for parking there was they hadn't brought a long enough hose for the job.


You've never worked out of a van on site have you?
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Re: Builders/lorries: are they allowed to park on cycle lanes?

Post by mjr »

reohn2 wrote:You've never worked out of a van on site have you?

Yes, including in London and Manchester, but relatively rarely and not recently. Have you and, if so, did you feel parking illegally and dangerously was a safe working practice?
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