Fred Whitton

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100%JR
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Fred Whitton

Postby 100%JR » 10 May 2019, 2:37pm

The organisers of the Fred Whitton Sportive have just posted on Social Media that any cyclists without an event number will not be allowed on Hard Knott pass.That section of road is officially closed to motor vehicles for the event this year but not allowing cyclists who haven't paid to ride seems to open up a can of worms IMO?
The responses on Social media seem to be a 50/50 split on whether it's a good idea.I suspect many of those who agree are folk who've paid?
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby alexnharvey » 10 May 2019, 3:04pm

Avoiding the question of whether or not it's a good idea, is it legal, do they have the authority to prevent anyone walking or cycling up the road or is it only closed to motor vehicles. Similarly, if roads are closed for the marathon or other running event, do people who have not entered running or walking on the route commit any offence?

edited

I wonder if they will have police there to prevent people cycling up. Presumably as raised in the facebbok comments if you insist on riding up it there's little another person can do without assaulting you unless they can lawfully exercise force. It does seem excessive that it is closed to all other cyclists for 8.5 hours. Surely the bulk of FW'ers are cycling up it within a few hours.
Last edited by alexnharvey on 10 May 2019, 3:19pm, edited 3 times in total.

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100%JR
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby 100%JR » 10 May 2019, 3:16pm

alexnharvey wrote:Avoiding the question of whether or not it's a good idea, is it legal, do they have the authority to prevent anyone walking or cycling up the road or is it only closed to motor vehicles. Similarly, if roads are closed for the marathon or other running event, do people who have not entered running or walking on the route commit any offence?

I know a few riders who regularly turn up and ride at organised events(Ride London/Tour of the Borders/Etape Loch Ness etc).I'm not sure of the legality of doing so but I know it's frowned upon by some.
What if some unsuspecting Tourer plans on riding over that day?
You can walk up to spectate but can you walk up with a bike to spectate?
Can anyone other than a Police officer force you to stop?

I think if enforced it opens up a can of worms with other events.
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby geocycle » 10 May 2019, 3:19pm

I suppose it depends on the terms of the closure licence. In the recent TdY there were rolling road closures that affected all users and bikes were certainly stopped by police. The police used suitable discretion and enforced a very narrow window for cycle movements.

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby mattheus » 10 May 2019, 4:08pm

My view is that cars are a nuisance to a cyclist on Hardknott, therefore the road closure is a benefit:
so if you haven't paid, it's ethically dubious to take advantage knowingly.

[If you're just out for a ride and get caught up in it, that's different.)

A lot of grey areas there, just MHO.

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby ianrobo » 10 May 2019, 4:32pm

Given how many have to walk if you knew it was on why bother ??? The Velo events are similar but nothing to stop you getting on if you want to

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby 100%JR » 10 May 2019, 5:06pm

alexnharvey wrote: It does seem excessive that it is closed to all other cyclists for 8.5 hours. Surely the bulk of FW'ers are cycling up it within a few hours.

Hard Knott is around the 80 mile mark so the times between the first and last riders can vary greatly.
Fast riders finish in just over 6hrs with slower riders taking over 12hrs.
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby eileithyia » 13 May 2019, 10:07pm

100%JR wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:Avoiding the question of whether or not it's a good idea, is it legal, do they have the authority to prevent anyone walking or cycling up the road or is it only closed to motor vehicles. Similarly, if roads are closed for the marathon or other running event, do people who have not entered running or walking on the route commit any offence?

I know a few riders who regularly turn up and ride at organised events(Ride London/Tour of the Borders/Etape Loch Ness etc).I'm not sure of the legality of doing so but I know it's frowned upon by some.
What if some unsuspecting Tourer plans on riding over that day?
You can walk up to spectate but can you walk up with a bike to spectate?
Can anyone other than a Police officer force you to stop?

I think if enforced it opens up a can of worms with other events.


Been away so a bit a late to the discussion. I asked this on a thread that had been posted to a local cycle club face book page... having cycle toured in the area and had accommodation booked at either side of the pass. I would certainly not be very happy to have a planned cycle tour over an iconic route in the lakes, having met many cycle-tourists from a variety of countries doing similar stuff, only to find I was not 'allowed' to go over it.
No one was preventing non-numbered cyclists from riding the bike route of the Alcudia Triathlon at the weekend......
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Ivor Tingting » 14 May 2019, 2:08am

There are 364 other days to ride it. Freeloaders or fare dodgers are the words that come to mind.
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Paulatic » 14 May 2019, 5:35am

Fortunately I’m old enough to have ridden, very similar, it as an Audax. Years before the Fred was conceived.
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Cugel
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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 14 May 2019, 9:39am

eileithyia wrote:
100%JR wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:Avoiding the question of whether or not it's a good idea, is it legal, do they have the authority to prevent anyone walking or cycling up the road or is it only closed to motor vehicles. Similarly, if roads are closed for the marathon or other running event, do people who have not entered running or walking on the route commit any offence?

I know a few riders who regularly turn up and ride at organised events(Ride London/Tour of the Borders/Etape Loch Ness etc).I'm not sure of the legality of doing so but I know it's frowned upon by some.
What if some unsuspecting Tourer plans on riding over that day?
You can walk up to spectate but can you walk up with a bike to spectate?
Can anyone other than a Police officer force you to stop?

I think if enforced it opens up a can of worms with other events.


Been away so a bit a late to the discussion. I asked this on a thread that had been posted to a local cycle club face book page... having cycle toured in the area and had accommodation booked at either side of the pass. I would certainly not be very happy to have a planned cycle tour over an iconic route in the lakes, having met many cycle-tourists from a variety of countries doing similar stuff, only to find I was not 'allowed' to go over it.
No one was preventing non-numbered cyclists from riding the bike route of the Alcudia Triathlon at the weekend......


This seems the sensible attitude. Who but a few obsessives knows what the Fred is, even; let alone when and where and all the strange rules some organiser has come up with. It's a long way 'round if you get to the bottom only to find the tops are denied you.

Add the fact that the rate of bicycles going over these passes is teenyweeny often zero on any particular day...... What's the problem? Ah. See next post. :-)

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 14 May 2019, 9:42am

Ivor Tingting wrote:There are 364 other days to ride it. Freeloaders or fare dodgers are the words that come to mind.


"Freeloaders and fare-dodgers". Is that road a turnpike, then, owned by some baron who charges a pass-fee for going along it? No. It's a public road, of which we all own a bit.

How much of the Fred entry fee goes to the Coonty Cooncil? Where is my small recompense for being denied my rightful access just to allow some masochists to harm themselves on a bike, eh, eh? I pay my rates you know!

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby pwa » 14 May 2019, 6:53pm

If I were intending to ride that hill that day I'd do it anyway. What are they going to do about it? Would they try to ban walkers too?

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby mnichols » 14 May 2019, 8:03pm

Has anyone actually had an issue?

I was registered to do it Sunday, but did it Saturday instead. I bumped into the organisers putting the signs out near Hardknot and I said that somebody could have my space Sunday if they had a waiting list.

They seem like nice people and it's a charity event. I can't imagine that if someone turned up inadvertently on a tour and was just riding a section of the route that they would stop them. The rule is there because they event is limited to 2,500 riders and there is a rolling road closure so they can't just having people turning up when they have that many people riding already because they would have too many riders.

They also publish the route for people to do on the 364 days of the years, and on the day that the event is on the road is only closed when the ride is going through.

The Fred is charity event so if someone is trying to freeload the whole thing at the exact date and time the event is on then this is bad form (IMHO).

I was there on the day, and there were plenty of other people cycling that weren't do The Fred. Even if you're in the area there are many roads to choose from.

For those that insist on doing a pass at the exact date/time that the event is on - has anyone actually been turned away?

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Re: Fred Whitton

Postby rfryer » 14 May 2019, 11:21pm

There is a safety aspect to not abusing the road closure. The parts of the route that were closed road included a couple of treacherously steep descents, which are at the limit of many rider's abilities to control. Adding an unanticipated rider zig-zagging up against the flow of the sportive doesn't seem ideal.

I can't see a valid reason that riders in the same direction as the event should be blocked, though.