Fred Whitton

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
mnichols
Posts: 1412
Joined: 22 Apr 2013, 4:29pm

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby mnichols » 15 May 2019, 12:56pm

rfryer wrote:There is a safety aspect to not abusing the road closure. The parts of the route that were closed road included a couple of treacherously steep descents, which are at the limit of many rider's abilities to control. Adding an unanticipated rider zig-zagging up against the flow of the sportive doesn't seem ideal.


I hadn't thought about riders going in the other direction! Hardknot and Wrynose are very bendy, narrow, steep and technical even in the dry and at the limit of good brakes. If you had a dozen or so riders coming down and one or more coming up that would be treacherous.

mattheus
Posts: 566
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby mattheus » 15 May 2019, 1:48pm

I was that rider, attempting to ascend the Galibier :(

It was the day before l'Etape, but unbeknownst to me there was *another* sportive (starting from Briancon?) coming down as I climbed up from Valloire.

It's less twisty than Hardknott, but this meant the leaders were descending close to 50 mph, using whole width of the road assuming that the road was closed for them!
It kinda was - just bikes and access vehicles. The lead group had an escort moto, so that was OK. But after that was a free-for-all, where I had to walk round several blind bends for my own safety! Fortunately, the upper slopes had better sightlines, so I could complete in safety. And I had the descent (to Bourg d'oisans) all to myself :)

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 826
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Ivor Tingting » 18 May 2019, 1:06pm

Cugel wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:There are 364 other days to ride it. Freeloaders or fare dodgers are the words that come to mind.


"Freeloaders and fare-dodgers". Is that road a turnpike, then, owned by some baron who charges a pass-fee for going along it? No. It's a public road, of which we all own a bit.

How much of the Fred entry fee goes to the Coonty Cooncil? Where is my small recompense for being denied my rightful access just to allow some masochists to harm themselves on a bike, eh, eh? I pay my rates you know!

Cugel


There are always people who want to be obnoxious and cause trouble for others. What's your problem? It is an annual charity event to raise money for good causes which means just for a few hours of one day of 365 a brief road closure is out in place for public safety, but you and your sour grapes crew rock up to cause trouble and headaches for the event organisers and be a possible hazard to legitimate participants. Why not next year volunteer your services as a marshal?
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

softlips
Posts: 483
Joined: 12 Dec 2016, 8:51pm

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby softlips » 18 May 2019, 3:08pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:
Cugel wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:There are 364 other days to ride it. Freeloaders or fare dodgers are the words that come to mind.


"Freeloaders and fare-dodgers". Is that road a turnpike, then, owned by some baron who charges a pass-fee for going along it? No. It's a public road, of which we all own a bit.

How much of the Fred entry fee goes to the Coonty Cooncil? Where is my small recompense for being denied my rightful access just to allow some masochists to harm themselves on a bike, eh, eh? I pay my rates you know!

Cugel


There are always people who want to be obnoxious and cause trouble for others. What's your problem? It is an annual charity event to raise money for good causes which means just for a few hours of one day of 365 a brief road closure is out in place for public safety, but you and your sour grapes crew rock up to cause trouble and headaches for the event organisers and be a possible hazard to legitimate participants. Why not next year volunteer your services as a marshal?


Have to agree

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2192
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 18 May 2019, 3:55pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:
Cugel wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:There are 364 other days to ride it. Freeloaders or fare dodgers are the words that come to mind.


"Freeloaders and fare-dodgers". Is that road a turnpike, then, owned by some baron who charges a pass-fee for going along it? No. It's a public road, of which we all own a bit.

How much of the Fred entry fee goes to the Coonty Cooncil? Where is my small recompense for being denied my rightful access just to allow some masochists to harm themselves on a bike, eh, eh? I pay my rates you know!

Cugel


There are always people who want to be obnoxious and cause trouble for others. What's your problem? It is an annual charity event to raise money for good causes which means just for a few hours of one day of 365 a brief road closure is out in place for public safety, but you and your sour grapes crew rock up to cause trouble and headaches for the event organisers and be a possible hazard to legitimate participants. Why not next year volunteer your services as a marshal?


Wot a fine rant! I award you ranter-of-the-week prize but also a raspberry. :-)

Cugel

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2192
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 18 May 2019, 3:56pm

softlips wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Cugel wrote:
"Freeloaders and fare-dodgers". Is that road a turnpike, then, owned by some baron who charges a pass-fee for going along it? No. It's a public road, of which we all own a bit.

How much of the Fred entry fee goes to the Coonty Cooncil? Where is my small recompense for being denied my rightful access just to allow some masochists to harm themselves on a bike, eh, eh? I pay my rates you know!

Cugel


There are always people who want to be obnoxious and cause trouble for others. What's your problem? It is an annual charity event to raise money for good causes which means just for a few hours of one day of 365 a brief road closure is out in place for public safety, but you and your sour grapes crew rock up to cause trouble and headaches for the event organisers and be a possible hazard to legitimate participants. Why not next year volunteer your services as a marshal?


Have to agree


You don't have to. :-)

Cugel

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 826
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Ivor Tingting » 18 May 2019, 4:16pm

Cugel wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
Cugel wrote:
"Freeloaders and fare-dodgers". Is that road a turnpike, then, owned by some baron who charges a pass-fee for going along it? No. It's a public road, of which we all own a bit.

How much of the Fred entry fee goes to the Coonty Cooncil? Where is my small recompense for being denied my rightful access just to allow some masochists to harm themselves on a bike, eh, eh? I pay my rates you know!

Cugel


There are always people who want to be obnoxious and cause trouble for others. What's your problem? It is an annual charity event to raise money for good causes which means just for a few hours of one day of 365 a brief road closure is out in place for public safety, but you and your sour grapes crew rock up to cause trouble and headaches for the event organisers and be a possible hazard to legitimate participants. Why not next year volunteer your services as a marshal?


Wot a fine rant! I award you ranter-of-the-week prize but also a raspberry. :-)

Cugel


What a thoroughly unpleasant comment.

So will you enter next year or volunteer your services as a marshal?
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2192
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 18 May 2019, 4:28pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:
Cugel wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:
There are always people who want to be obnoxious and cause trouble for others. What's your problem? It is an annual charity event to raise money for good causes which means just for a few hours of one day of 365 a brief road closure is out in place for public safety, but you and your sour grapes crew rock up to cause trouble and headaches for the event organisers and be a possible hazard to legitimate participants. Why not next year volunteer your services as a marshal?


Wot a fine rant! I award you ranter-of-the-week prize but also a raspberry. :-)

Cugel


What a thoroughly unpleasant comment.

So will you enter next year or volunteer your services as a marshal?


Of course not! I've cycled a number of times over Wrynose & Hardknott but never as part of an overpriced organised cycle ride by profit-making pretend-charity donaters. I dislike sugary gels and roads clogged with gel wrappers & sheep (especially the human ilk). :-)

Would you like a list of some real charities to donate to? I give to several albeit without a song, dance or ostentatious cycle ride. They don't have them "executives" or other money-suckers taking 95% of the donations, mind. No badge either.

Cugel, thinking of organising a mass trike ride the other way 'round on Fred day.

PS Have another raspberry.

eileithyia
Posts: 7742
Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 6:46pm
Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby eileithyia » 18 May 2019, 5:32pm

There might be another 364 days of the year to ride it, but if it's your annual 2 week holiday with booked accommodation at either end and you weren't aware it was on ... you don't have much alternative choice... my post was not about free-loading (who would want to I would prefer to avoid like the plague having seen the state of some bikes and ability on local 'charity' rides).
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

geocycle
Posts: 1699
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 9:46am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby geocycle » 18 May 2019, 6:51pm

Cugel wrote:
Would you like a list of some real charities to donate to? I give to several albeit without a song, dance or ostentatious cycle ride. They don't have them "executives" or other money-suckers taking 95% of the donations, mind. No badge either.
.


This is the list of this years charities https://www.fredwhittonchallenge.co.uk/ ... charities/ I hope you’d agree some are worthy of support.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2192
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 19 May 2019, 6:56pm

I do give "all that money to Macmillan quietly" since the donations are anonymous. 'Twas another poster who demanded I ride the Fred and ostentatiously collect money by demanding it with menaces from all & sundry, just because I was going to ride my bike up a few hills. And of course, my donations are still "quiet" as no one knows who this Cugel is, eh? Just in case you haven't realised, it's an internet pseudonym. Keep up!

****
Salaries to those who work in the charitable domain...... This undermines their charitable status to a degree, don't you think? However, if the charity is just a money collector and provider of infrastructure (including nursing expertise) you could make a case for paying for professional services such as qualified nursing. On the other hand, we do have the NHS in Britain, with the taxpayers alrready paying the professional nurses.

Can a case be made for the "infrastructure" of marketing and advertising the charity's existence and want of money? I would argue: no. That is core charity work and the definition of charity is giving with out expectation of return.

By the way, those who spend many hours a week visiting the dying in Macmillan facilites are a form of nurse and do it for nothing.....

Still, you have a point. There should be a discussion about what is pukka for charities to do and what not to do because it's more a business activity. The problem is this: if every charity worker should be paid, how do you encourage the volunteers who do immense amount of charity work for nothing? I feel the charities have fallen into that modern trap of thinking the only value is cash value. But volunteering unpaid time and effort is another kind of value, much more appropriate to a charitable organsisation than is just doing it for a salary.

If you think otherwise, why not give us your reasons? Perhaps you'll be persuasive?

Dick, calling Bill. :-)

PH
Posts: 7272
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby PH » 19 May 2019, 8:24pm

The roads are public spaces and for the public to make best use of them I see nothing wrong with them sometimes being closed to some users, same with any other public space.
I hope the thousands of riders on the FWC had a good day and those who would selfishly put the event in jeopardy were few.
I've taken part in several closed road cycling rides, though different in nature to this one. I've also enjoyed many other none cycling closed road events, from motor sport in Birmingham city centre to Notting Hill Carnival, maybe those advocating spoiler rides through the FWC would like to ride through those as well.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2192
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby Cugel » 20 May 2019, 8:24am

PH wrote:The roads are public spaces and for the public to make best use of them I see nothing wrong with them sometimes being closed to some users, same with any other public space.
I hope the thousands of riders on the FWC had a good day and those who would selfishly put the event in jeopardy were few.
I've taken part in several closed road cycling rides, though different in nature to this one. I've also enjoyed many other none cycling closed road events, from motor sport in Birmingham city centre to Notting Hill Carnival, maybe those advocating spoiler rides through the FWC would like to ride through those as well.


No one advocated spoiler rides except in jest to mock the po-faced fellows who are getting very hoity-toity about things. When I suggested I might organise a contraflow massed trike ride I wasn't, believe it or not, being serious. Cuh!

There have been discussions elsewhere in the forum about closed road events. I can see it for activities that are inherently dangerous, such as a motor race around a bit of the town. I feel it's unecessarily a nuisance for a cycling event unless that event is a road race, which is all about speed and therefore high risk cycling. TTers manage very well on open roads, as do Audaxers and club rides of various kinds. Why does a sportive need a closed road - unless it's that the cyclists are inept or inclined to ride dangerously themselves - without justification? After all ".... it's not a race....". :-)

The notion of Wrynose and Hardknott being closed for the event had various pros and cons mentioned. Personally I started from a "road closures unnecessary" for the above reasons but have ended up persuaded that it would be wise to close it to motors because of the nature of the road and the general inexperience of tourists in Lakeland driving such roads. And the inexperience of many cyclists riding such fierce hills. Perhaps you could make a case for asking cyclists not to ride contra to the direction of the Fred but .... it's survived many a long year without such a closure to non-event cyclists, previously. Isn't this someone just getting carried away with the "fierce marshal" thing?

Cugel

brynpoeth
Posts: 10519
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby brynpoeth » 20 May 2019, 9:26am

Cugel was persuaded to change his mind, Plus One, I and others could try that too :wink:
Shame the laws of physics cannae be changed so that one might cycle uphill without having to ride down again, I would certainly avoid riding up when the masses are going down :?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

PH
Posts: 7272
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Fred Whitton

Postby PH » 20 May 2019, 10:21am

Cugel wrote:... it's survived many a long year without such a closure to non-event cyclists, previously. Isn't this someone just getting carried away with the "fierce marshal" thing?
Cugel

It's grown in popularity over the years, from a couple of hundred to having to close entries at 2,500. I'm guessing that the maximum number was something that came from a risk assessment, or agreed with the insurers or some other authority. Whatever it was the didn't want to exceed it for profit or pleasure.
As to the necessity, why does it have to be essential, why not just desirable? Is it just that you consider those wanting it to be sheep? What's wrong with using a public space for the pleasure of thousands at the inconvenience of a few? But the original point from the organisers wasn't about inconveniencing anyone, it was an attempt to stop those who didn't have a place from acting as if they did.
And yes, of course I knew you were jesting, it was straight out of my favorite Jeremy Clarkson joke book...