Cycling UK Forum

Friend or foe, in the attempt to get Toads out of their cars on to something less dangerous and better for the health?

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019 ... s-on-roads

They don't seem that different to bikes .... except that: they don't have to be scooted, as an e-bike must be pedalled; and they are limited to a 20kph e-assistance level compared to a bike's 25kph.

Here's the bit that bothered me:

But unlike a high-speed bike ride, there is no benefit of a raised heartbeat because of course the e-scooter does all the work.

“That’s true,” says von Braunmühl, “but you are enjoying the fresh air. And guys in particular are prone to imagine as they swerve about that they’re on the ski slopes or wind surfing.”

Cugel

More of a foe , 20km/h on the pavement or any other pedestrian area esp if users think they are on skis swerving about, they would be worse then a youth on a skateboard, with these they will be more of a liability then bicycles/EAPC''s. The vast masses are lazy and are glued to the ICE vehicles.


Fine if the infastructure was there to seperate users from pedestrians but not in the UK in general.

Foe.

Dynamically unstable, particularly when braking hard, and braking hard is kinda a useful thing to do in an emergency to avoid blood and screaming. Not really safe to be used anywhere outside of a controlled environment.

But I like the principle, and have no issue with the same concept applied to something a little steadier.

Potentially good but it depends on users,I suspect there'll be an element of idiots using them like any other mode of transport.
They're much more attractive an option for many than bikes,as they're easier to fold,store and carry on public transport when folded.
They'll probably pose about the same threat to cyclists as cyclists cause to motorist

Friend! As well as reducing the number of cars, if allowed on the roads,they
- get the remaining cars even more used to sharing the lane
- crash into potholes and injure the riders, creating pressure to sort out our woeful road surfaces.

And they're fun, too. As a hire vehicle they are much better (ie desirable to use) than the heavy bikes I've encountered.

The genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back, friend or foe they're here to stay and we might as well have an attempt at regulating them. Out and about in the last week I've been passed by at least a dozen such vehicles, scooters, sit on scooters, a single wheel contraption and a bike with a lawnmower engine strapped to it, all of them going faster than me, a couple at a speed I'd have liked to be doing but most faster than I considered appropriate, though none of them cased me any danger and I'd rather be sharing space with them than the average driver.

Loads of them used for commuting in London. The vast majority of users seem sensible - even though they’re breaking the law obviously.

When I was eleven years old, 284 years ago, I did have an old fashioned Triang scooter that someone gave me. It had wheels about 6 or 8 inches in diameter, a platform with room for two feet and a rear brake pedal that you stood on with your heel to apply a rubber to the tyre. It was hard to scoot uphill but quite fast downhill. It more than halved the time to get to school.

One could ride it on pavement or road. The road felt less safe. Also, the teeny wheels didn't like pothole. Pavement was OK but one did get shouted at by the odd pedestrian who assumed you were a barging-thug as he's encountered such before on a scooter. And the kerbs were a nuisance.

If these e-scooters would only work when the user themselves was a-scooting-oh with one leg; and if the e-power was regulated by how much leg-power was applied (as per e-bike) I would be more in favour. But where are the health benefits to the user, really, if they don't have to scoot, merely turn a throttle thing?

Also, can they transport anything much? A car can transport two dogs, a dog ramp, several bags of shopping collected on the way and all the empty bottles for the recyling hopper. (and two bikes as well, sometimes). My shopping bike has four panniers and could also have a handlebar basket, in which kilos of manglewurzels or even caviar could be transported, with a bottle of champagne or two. What can an e-scooter carry besides a swerving big-kid pretending he's skiing?

Cugel

not legal any where in public ? so why bother with them

mercalia wrote:not legal any where in public ? so why bother with them

I think the point is,as already posted,the genie is out of the bottle and e-scooters are 'in the world',so it's how the world copes with them ,banning anything doesn't work as we already know so coping is a better strategy.
Personally I can see a place for them and if used responsibly like anything else could remove cars from the roads of already congested town and city centres.There are,as has also been mentioned,spinoffs that could benefit cyclists.

The exercise side of the argument is spurious in that if people don't wish to exercise to get from A to B they'll find a way if at all possible to avoid it,heaven knows we see enough if it now with people dragging a ton or more of metal on short haul 2miles or less journeys,as I posted above if such vehicles as e-scooters along with other similar vehicles remove cars and therefore emissions from the atmosphere,they're a plus.

The puritans amongst us will always see such vehicles as a negative,one only need look at their prejudice against to e-bikes to realise they're living in the past and can't move with the times.

reohn2 wrote:

mercalia wrote:not legal any where in public ? so why bother with them

I think the point is,as already posted,the genie is out of the bottle and e-scooters are 'in the world',so it's how the world copes with them ,banning anything doesn't work as we already know so coping is a better strategy.
Personally I can see a place for them and if used responsibly like anything else could remove cars from the roads of already congested town and city centres.There are,as has also been mentioned,spinoffs that could benefit cyclists.

The exercise side of the argument is spurious in that if people don't wish to exercise to get from A to B they'll find a way if at all possible to avoid it,heaven knows we see enough if it now with people dragging a ton or more of metal on short haul 2miles or less journeys,as I posted above if such vehicles as e-scooters along with other similar vehicles remove cars and therefore emissions from the atmosphere,they're a plus.

The puritans amongst us will always see such vehicles as a negative,one only need look at their prejudice against to e-bikes to realise they're living in the past and can't move with the times.

Dont think so. I see one or 2 around. They will never be allowed on pavements where they should be stamped out. As for the road? They have a use for getting around in factories or large premises. if they were they would create legal problems with pedelecs as the requirement of pedal assist would have to be removed? what happened to those small "toy" motor bkes that were once available?

mercalia wrote:Dont think so. I see one or 2 around.

Maybe you don't get out much, I've posted above that I've seen a dozen in the last week or so and softlips has seen loads commuting in London. Just google it to see how common they've become,

mercalia wrote:Dont think so. I see one or 2 around. They will never be allowed on pavements where they should be stamped out. As for the road? They have a use for getting around in factories or large premises. if they were they would create legal problems with pedelecs as the requirement of pedal assist would have to be removed? what happened to those small "toy" motor bkes that were once available?

These vehicles aren't toys,they're means of travel and as such can't be ignored for much longer,so we'll have to agree to differ.

I'm not sure I've seen many, maybe a kid on one in the park, what I have seen more of is what appear to be illegal e-bikes, the problem is, how do you distinguish the legal ones from the illegal ones, then how do you distinguish the e-bikes from the bikes? If e-bikes or e-scooters start becoming a problem, even a minor problem with lots of bad press, it might open the door to all bikes and scooters being made identifiable and registered, to cut down on the illegal ones.

Not seen any in this part of the world - or at least I've not seen any.
Saw absolutely loads in Benidorm when we've been there. They seem to have different laws on these things out there.

Everything is illegal unless it's specifically permitted. E-scooters aren't permitted to be used in public places.
What it needs IMHO, is a test case of someone being prosecuted for riding one, and the plaintive arguing that "everybody's riding them!"