Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

[Tangled Metal]

Why do motorists find it so difficult to drive within the speed limit?
What is so onerous about obeying the law that they go to such lengths to avoid penalty?

You could say similar about other law infractions. Why break the law and try to avoid penalty? I'm sure the reasons might well be similar between different crimes.

Having said that, switching it around a bit you could ask why do some cyclists jump red lights and try to escape penalty if caught? Or why do murderers try to get away with it? Truth is we all break a law or two but don't want punishment. Mind you not all motorists, cyclists or people break the laws of the road or commit murder but often with cyclists and motorists there's a lumping together of the whole as law breakers.

[Mike Sales]

Why do motorists find it so difficult to drive within the speed limit?
What is so onerous about obeying the law that they go to such lengths to avoid penalty?

You could say similar about other law infractions. Why break the law and try to avoid penalty? I'm sure the reasons might well be similar between different crimes.

I am interested in speeding partly because it is so universal. I guess the answer is that it is so easy to get away with. The remedy is obvious.
The other reason I ask is that there is so little obvious reward. They just get to the next holdup earlier. There are few journeys where the odd minute is crucial. Certainly the risks taken with their own and other's lives are not objectively justified.
The urgency of the mgif and the desperation to overtake are almost pathological. Why not just relax, take it easy, not put yourself and others under so much pressure? Is the real reward that a need for stimulation is gratified? This may be the reason for "motorway madness". The motorway is so featureless that drivers are understimulated?
I have read Highwaymen justifying road "improvements" on the grounds that they reduce "driver stress". I always thought that if drivers wanted to reduce their stress levels they could drive more slowly. This is an option they reject.
It is as if a certain level of stress, or stimulation, is subconsciously targeted.

[Bmblbzzz]

What I would like to see instead is a concentrated and concerted attempt to make certain stretches of roads safe (we have a particular problem with the A38 in SE Cornwall for example) viz:

1. Delineate the stretch of road
2. Back the speed limit signs in a different colour
3. Declare it a strict speed limit zone
4. Warn of random, hidden speed cameras
5. Put up signs explaining it all
6. Put a proper speed limit in place

IME drivers actually do respond to sensible, logical rules. Sporadic, random speed traps are a complete waste of time. Would I warn other drivers - no. Do I flag down speeding motorists while on my bike - yes (well, someone has to ).

Your point 3 highlights our current approach to speed limits. That we can talk about "a strict speed limit zone" shows how our current attitudes are not strict. IME the most effective approach is not to increase enforcement but automation such as adaptive speed control systems. It'll be a long time coming though.

[Mick F]

The 30 limit Gunnislake Hill is flouted almost permanently. Couple of miles from the very top to to the village.
If you walk up or down on the pavement, you are aware of the motor vehicles doing perhaps 50mph whizzing past.

I must say though, when coming down the steep section on the bike, I like the fact that the motorists are speeding. I will do 45/48mph easily, and if the traffic was obeying the 30 limit, I'd have to overtake them or drag the brakes all the way down. I've done it on occasion but it's a dodgy thing to do on a bike at over 40mph on the wrong side of the road.

[pwa]

Why do motorists find it so difficult to drive within the speed limit?
What is so onerous about obeying the law that they go to such lengths to avoid penalty?

Two reasons. Either they actually want to drive faster than the limit, or they lose concentration and forget to scrub some speed off as they move from one limit to another. The latter is my own mode of failure. Being nabbed does help to refresh that concentration, so thinking objectively it does work to some extent.

They find it difficult to resist their own desire to speed? But why? Should we increase their incentive to obey the limit?
The idea of motorists going too fast because they lose concentration is a bit alarming. As you suggest, being pinched is a good refresher.
More effective enforcement is clearly the answer. Concealed cameras should concentrate the mind.

You either don't drive or you do and you are perfect, because as long as humans are in control of cars they will occasionally forget and leave the braking a bit late as they enter a slower limit. The better drivers do it less than the poorer drivers, but they all do it a bit. Taking humans out of the equation is the only (if long term) 100% solution. If you want a complete solution, that is it. I'd quite like the car to do the driving for me.

[Pastychomper]

Do you get many in Caithness? (serious Q)

No, not many. I believe speed traps have been set from time to time on at least one local Saturday night racer route, but I can't remember the last time I personally saw one this far north. I was thinking of my occasional trips to the deep south.

[Bonefishblues]

Do you get many in Caithness? (serious Q)

No, not many. I believe speed traps have been set from time to time on at least one local Saturday night racer route, but I can't remember the last time I personally saw one this far north. I was thinking of my occasional trips to the deep south.

Aberdeen way, eh?

[Mike Sales]

You either don't drive or you do and you are perfect, because as long as humans are in control of cars they will occasionally forget and leave the braking a bit late as they enter a slower limit. The better drivers do it less than the poorer drivers, but they all do it a bit. Taking humans out of the equation is the only (if long term) 100% solution. If you want a complete solution, that is it. I'd quite like the car to do the driving for me.

I had a short driving career, as chauffeur for my aging mother. I found the responsibility a serious one, and made a big effort to concentrate. I don't think I broke any limit even momentarlly on passing a limit sign. I do not think I am perfect, but this sort of speeding is not what I am concerned with.
I was hoping to gain, from the many drivers who post here, some insight into why most drivers break limits so often, as a matter of course. I am trying to get to the bottom of why drivers feel such a sense of urgency in their car. I want to know why motorists push past me on the road, and then amble across Tesco's car park and block the aisles with their dawdling trolleys. Even the young men who drive so aggressively do not sprint down the street when they get out of their car.
I note that congestion is described as "misery" or "chaos", which seems to express a deep sense of frustration in drivers who cannot go as fast as they like.
I want to know what psychological drive makes motorists take such risks with their own and other's lives in order to overtake, even when it is plain they will gain little or no advantage.
Why are drivers in such a hurry?

[DaveReading]

Advance warning: when I'm Prime Minister, all speed cameras will be concealed/camouflaged.

[Mike Sales]

Advance warning: when I'm Prime Minister, all speed cameras will be concealed/camouflaged.

Can I be your Minister for Road Narrowing?

[pwa]

You either don't drive or you do and you are perfect, because as long as humans are in control of cars they will occasionally forget and leave the braking a bit late as they enter a slower limit. The better drivers do it less than the poorer drivers, but they all do it a bit. Taking humans out of the equation is the only (if long term) 100% solution. If you want a complete solution, that is it. I'd quite like the car to do the driving for me.

I had a short driving career, as chauffeur for my aging mother. I found the responsibility a serious one, and made a big effort to concentrate. I don't think I broke any limit even momentarlly on passing a limit sign. I do not think I am perfect, but this sort of speeding is not what I am concerned with.
I was hoping to gain, from the many drivers who post here, some insight into why most drivers break limits so often, as a matter of course. I am trying to get to the bottom of why drivers feel such a sense of urgency in their car. I want to know why motorists push past me on the road, and then amble across Tesco's car park and block the aisles with their dawdling trolleys. Even the young men who drive so aggressively do not sprint down the street when they get out of their car.
I note that congestion is described as "misery" or "chaos", which seems to express a deep sense of frustration in drivers who cannot go as fast as they like.
I want to know what psychological drive makes motorists take such risks with their own and other's lives in order to overtake, even when it is plain they will gain little or no advantage.
Why are drivers in such a hurry?

Well, it probably depends on which drivers you are talking about. Some drivers really like speed for its own sake, but that's not me and I guess they are a minority. For me, failing to slow enough to avoid entering s new limit without a few excess mph is due to lack of mindfulness, with me momentarily thinking of that bottle of milk I should have picked up from Tesco and didn't. A cluttered brain. If I'm impatient on the road, and I try not to be, it is again due to having too many things to think about, and just being a bit ratty due to life's niggles. Or occasionally being genuinely on the last minute for something because something has delayed me and thrown me off schedule. But I don't take it out on other road users. Like I say, things will get better when the human in the car is no longer driving it.

More important than actual speed limits is choosing a speed that is appropriate for the circumstances and i think I do pretty well at that. I instinctively ease off when I see a row of parked cars or something like that, and I think I see potential hazards.

[Mike Sales]

Well, it probably depends on which drivers you are talking about. Some drivers really like speed for its own sake, but that's not me and I guess they are a minority. For me, failing to slow enough to avoid entering s new limit without a few excess mph is due to lack of mindfulness, with me momentarily thinking of that bottle of milk I should have picked up from Tesco and didn't. A cluttered brain. If I'm impatient on the road, and I try not to be, it is again due to having too many things to think about, and just being a bit ratty due to life's niggles. Or occasionally being genuinely on the last minute for something because something has delayed me and thrown me off schedule. But I don't take it out on other road users. Like I say, things will get better when the human in the car is no longer driving it.

I am not talking about those drivers who do not slow down quite quickly enough when passing a limit sign. I am talking about the day to day speeding of the average driver. Don't forget, either, that a thirty limit does not give carte blanche to drive at 30mph.
My observation and the results of self reporting surveys show that most drivers break limits often. Driving too close to the vehicle in front is very common. This increases pressure not to slow down.
For some reason many drivers would not feel safe cycling. Why? Roughly three in four or more cycle/motor incidents are the fault of the driver.
Our roads are not felt to be safe for the slow and vulnerable, especially children.
I have been dangerously close-passed by all descriptions of driver.

[pwa]

Close passing would concern me much more, when cycling, than someone going a few mph over a limit. While I do see the point in speed limits, the excess speed that really bothers me is speed above what is safe for the circumstances at that moment. So on a clear bit of road with no parked cars, no pedestrians, etc, if a car passes at 35mph and the limit is 30 it is, for me, a small concern. If someone drives past a row of parked cars at 29mph in a 30mph limit that is much more of a concern to me. That looks like real danger.

[[XAP]Bob]

There are some inappropriate speed limits (I'd argue that when I was 'had' in the US it was an example of that*)

But that isn't a license to flout them.
Speed cameras are an easy and obvious way of massively increasing the likelihood of detection/conviction, and as such should be embraced - but not to the exclusion of all other traffic policing.

I can't imagine it's difficult to have a speed camera that is hooked up to a variable speed limit sign outside schools etc. (as one of the really obvious places where the limit should vary throughout the day).



* I'm sure I've related this before.
US speed limits are (were?) generally posted, then repeated after a few hundred yards, then apply for the next hundred miles or so.
Late one night getting to a motel I entered a town, and pulled into the motel - key was where arranged (reception was shut), had a good nights sleep then left first thing.
Turned left onto the road - crossed the pavement, passed 15ft of grass verge, dropped kerb, a parking lane, then two lanes of traffic before I got to the centre line. The street was basically symmetrical - mostly houses with front yards behind the pavement.
As I left town there were very few parked cars (basically none) in the parking lanes either side, and no other traffic, and I drove at what I considered to be a reasonable speed - 42mph.
As it turns out the limit signs I'd driven past in the dark late the night before had declared a 30 zone - but I hadn't passed one in the morning, because I had already passed them the day before.
The US police can be suckers for a proper British accent and genuine 'no idea what the limit was, I was guessing at 40'. (wrote me a ticket for <10mph over)

[Mike Sales]

Close passing would concern me much more, when cycling, than someone going a few mph over a limit. While I do see the point in speed limits, the excess speed that really bothers me is speed above what is safe for the circumstances at that moment. So on a clear bit of road with no parked cars, no pedestrians, etc, if a car passes at 35mph and the limit is 30 it is, for me, a small concern. If someone drives past a row of parked cars at 29mph in a 30mph limit that is much more of a concern to me. That looks like real danger.

Of course, we are not being offered a choice between close passers and speeders. All too often we get both in a bumper package. I suspect one leads to the other.
I have no confidence that what a driver thinks is a safe speed in the circumstances is that.
Both antisocial behaviours make the roads feel less safe for less intrepid cyclists.