Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

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Bonefishblues
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Jun 2019, 9:12am

pwa wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
pwa wrote:Just plucking a figure out of thin air, I'd say 95% of speed limits on roads around here are either just right or too high. But there are a small number of roads with a lower limit than makes any sense. If I were given the job of going around adjusting speed limits I would adjust a few upwards, but many more downwards. For the most part "those in authority" seem to sit on their hands and do nothing about inappropriate limits.



Clad = claims!

I'm not saying they are always set right, just that they are there for a reason.

I'm sure that is correct, but I wish they were adjusted more frequently and not just left, fossilised, because some numpty with a clipboard made an error of judgement a couple of decades ago. Around here we have a few instances of roads going from 30 to NSL where they should be doing the opposite.

And conversely I picked up from a fellow committee member on a Police liaison Group that they had a 1.5-mile stretch of 30mph limit in their new community, which seemed odd.
It seems that it's a legacy of the former Airbase it's being built on, and whilst the central portion certainly should be 30, there's probably 50% of the (largely arrow-straight) limit which could and should be raised a little. I've done a virtual drive-through and were I a camera van, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel!
I know there's a 'lower is better' school of thought, but there's little doubt that the effect of the lower limit where it's needed is diminished by the stretches where it isn't. Oh, and traffic calming measures are minimal at best, which is disappointing.

pwa
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby pwa » 25 Jun 2019, 9:19am

This one always amuses me. NSL past these houses, but move a couple of hundred metres down the road to where the housing finishes and you go into a 30! I drive slowly for all of it, but it shows how nonsensical limits can be.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6441863 ... 6?hl=en-GB

and

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6433851 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 25 Jun 2019, 9:33am

There's nothing 'sneaky' about such a speed camera. In addition to the obvious fact that you won't be fined if you weren't speeding, they are quite obvious. They're a fine for lack of attention as much as speeding.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Tangled Metal » 25 Jun 2019, 10:19am

Bmblbzzz wrote:There's nothing 'sneaky' about such a speed camera. In addition to the obvious fact that you won't be fined if you weren't speeding, they are quite obvious. They're a fine for lack of attention as much as speeding.

That speed camera van was certainly not visible from the direction traffic being targeted came from. Not that I'm complaining because you speed at your own decision so your own fault. But my point is that it's sneaky.

The biggest effect of police car on a fast road or speed camera is that they slow speeding vehicles down where they are. Where there is a need to go slower. They need visibility to do that. This van effectively is about revenue from fines. Reason? Well they only operate in one area for one day and might not come back for the year or two. Drivers know caught one day free to speed the next. Not that I don't think it's worth doing.

pwa
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby pwa » 25 Jun 2019, 10:29am

Having had a speeding notice plop through the letterbox, and needing to do some driving as part of my job, I am happy to confirm that getting caught out does deter future offending. Because of the potential points, not the fine. So it does work in the only way that matters: deterrence.

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Pastychomper
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Pastychomper » 25 Jun 2019, 10:58am

Speaking as one who's driven probably too many miles over the years, there are only two things that annoy me about speed traps.

The first is when habitual speeders notice them and suddenly slow down to well below the limit, causing a small but unnecessary interruption to the traffic flow. That's a good reason not to warn anyone.

The second is when a set of roadworks gets cleared away before the automated speed trap. This is rare IME but it's the only situation I can think of where I might be tempted to warn other drivers, if they were clearly ignoring the remaining temporary limit signs.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Jun 2019, 11:29am

Pastychomper wrote:Speaking as one who's driven probably too many miles over the years, there are only two things that annoy me about speed traps.

The first is when habitual speeders notice them and suddenly slow down to well below the limit, causing a small but unnecessary interruption to the traffic flow. That's a good reason not to warn anyone.

The second is when a set of roadworks gets cleared away before the automated speed trap. This is rare IME but it's the only situation I can think of where I might be tempted to warn other drivers, if they were clearly ignoring the remaining temporary limit signs.

Do you get many in Caithness? (serious Q)

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horizon
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby horizon » 25 Jun 2019, 12:30pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:There's nothing 'sneaky' about such a speed camera. In addition to the obvious fact that you won't be fined if you weren't speeding, they are quite obvious. They're a fine for lack of attention as much as speeding.


As much as I would like to see thousands more hidden speed cameras and ban millions of drivers, the odd hidden speed trap here and there is so useless as to be offensive. It's simply PR. It makes those drivers who are caught feel that it was just bad luck and the rest of the time it's back to the usual.

There is some research somewhere out there that says that the police have certain fishing pools: cannabis users, speeding, the local cottage. It does nothing to deter behaviour and the arrest/penalty can ruin lives. But the police can dip in as and when they choose and are guaranteed a good catch. The logical result is complete cynicism on the part of the miscreants - life goes on.

What I would like to see instead is a concentrated and concerted attempt to make certain stretches of roads safe (we have a particular problem with the A38 in SE Cornwall for example) viz:

1. Delineate the stretch of road
2. Back the speed limit signs in a different colour
3. Declare it a strict speed limit zone
4. Warn of random, hidden speed cameras
5. Put up signs explaining it all
6. Put a proper speed limit in place

IME drivers actually do respond to sensible, logical rules. Sporadic, random speed traps are a complete waste of time. Would I warn other drivers - no. Do I flag down speeding motorists while on my bike - yes (well, someone has to :D).
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

rfryer
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby rfryer » 25 Jun 2019, 12:44pm

Tangled Metal wrote:The biggest effect of police car on a fast road or speed camera is that they slow speeding vehicles down where they are. Where there is a need to go slower. They need visibility to do that. This van effectively is about revenue from fines. Reason? Well they only operate in one area for one day and might not come back for the year or two. Drivers know caught one day free to speed the next. Not that I don't think it's worth doing.

I think you're correct in that the speed camera's main effect is to slow traffic locally. However, I think that's a bad thing. If, instead, all the traffic that slowed was fined/pointed, they would become more inclined to drive within the law in general (especially as they got closer to the 12 point limit). Surely the best long term goal is for all drivers to be paranoid about being caught for speeding, and to drive responsibly?

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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby PH » 25 Jun 2019, 1:14pm

horizon wrote:IME drivers actually do respond to sensible, logical rules.

Of course they do, every single one of them.
Of course they also get to define what the sensible, logical rules are.
I'd rather someone else takes those decision, if they get it wrong the moaners will moan, the alternative is anarchy.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Tangled Metal » 25 Jun 2019, 1:17pm

That doesn't happen. Mobile speed camera vans move around. Chances of getting done again on that route are nonexistent for at I least some time. That stretch I posted about probably got enforced 3+ years ago. The fixed speed cameras get film in once a year on that stretch of road.

To make it work you need resources that really aren't in place. I mentioned Preston having more mobile camera units than the whole of Cumbria. Friends still living there tell me they're used so often on main routes you don't speed on those main routes, not worth the risk.

So it works, but only where there's the revenue coming in for doing it. The odd unit used so infrequently doesn't do anything. It's really a waste of time. In the location I mentioned there isn't even a speeding issue. The road snakes along following the bends of the canal. Nobody really goes above 40mph limit because it's not safe to do so. There's turnings on the bends for example and cyclists "causing an obstruction". Use of DM style description of cycling to elaborate the point that you can't drive fast there without risks people are mostly not happy taking. I drive that route in a line of traffic quite often and tbh most often that's at 40mph, not always though.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Jun 2019, 1:39pm

I've noticed an increased tendency for live mobile cameras to be flagged on Google Maps in real-time. I've often been asked if it's still there.

Mike Sales
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Mike Sales » 25 Jun 2019, 1:42pm

Why do motorists find it so difficult to drive within the speed limit?
What is so onerous about obeying the law that they go to such lengths to avoid penalty?

pwa
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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby pwa » 25 Jun 2019, 1:52pm

Mike Sales wrote:Why do motorists find it so difficult to drive within the speed limit?
What is so onerous about obeying the law that they go to such lengths to avoid penalty?

Two reasons. Either they actually want to drive faster than the limit, or they lose concentration and forget to scrub some speed off as they move from one limit to another. The latter is my own mode of failure. Being nabbed does help to refresh that concentration, so thinking objectively it does work to some extent.

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Re: Sneaky mobile speed camera van - do you warn people?

Postby Mike Sales » 25 Jun 2019, 3:12pm

pwa wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:Why do motorists find it so difficult to drive within the speed limit?
What is so onerous about obeying the law that they go to such lengths to avoid penalty?

Two reasons. Either they actually want to drive faster than the limit, or they lose concentration and forget to scrub some speed off as they move from one limit to another. The latter is my own mode of failure. Being nabbed does help to refresh that concentration, so thinking objectively it does work to some extent.


They find it difficult to resist their own desire to speed? But why? Should we increase their incentive to obey the limit?
The idea of motorists going too fast because they lose concentration is a bit alarming. As you suggest, being pinched is a good refresher.
More effective enforcement is clearly the answer. Concealed cameras should concentrate the mind.