Dogs off lead on shared use path

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Feb 2020, 10:22am

Predict the unpredictable? Fat chance! So just take things easy on mixed use paths so you don't have to predict, to react and adjust is sufficient.

If that makes sense.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Feb 2020, 12:43pm

That *is* predicting the unpredictable.

You assume that something you haven’t spotted is going to occur.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 18 Feb 2020, 2:12pm

Hi,
I had to walk yesterday along the pavement a couple of miles I always look up to see what's coming up while I'm pacing myself.
Spied couple of people with series of dogs fortunately as I approach they peel off going in different directions.
I think this would be okay but two small dogs on the end of long Leeds.
The owner makes a bit of an attempt to pull dogs out of my way, but only momentarily, if I wasn't careful I could've kicked one of the dogs.

The trick is of course when you see other people on the pavement and you have a dog, Put yourself between your dogs and other people, put yourself between your dogs on any dangers when on the road et cetera et cetera.
But no just allow your dogs to get tangled with other users et cetera et cetera.

A simple rule of putting Yourself between your pets and others would solve a lot of problems.

So I walked through the park.
Around the corner through the hedge I saw several cyclist coming the other way.
The first three locked their brakes before narrowly avoiding me, The fourth managed to swerve around me.
They were young riders school children even.
The park has shared use that's a sign pedestrians and cyclists in the same circle I I RC.
I am simply not going to just jump into the hedge.
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mattheus
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mattheus » 18 Feb 2020, 2:22pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Spied couple of people with series of dogs fortunately as I approach they peel off going in different directions.
I think this would be okay but two small dogs on the end of long Leeds.
The owner makes a bit of an attempt to pull dogs out of my way, but only momentarily, if I wasn't careful I could've kicked one of the dogs.

The trick is of course when you see other people on the pavement and you have a dog, Put yourself between your dogs and other people, put yourself between your dogs on any dangers when on the road et cetera et cetera.
But no just allow your dogs to get tangled with other users et cetera et cetera.

A simple rule of putting Yourself between your pets and others would solve a lot of problems.

Crazy isn't it??

There is a strong argument that extendable leads are the work of the devil anyway, but even dogs on regular leads seem to have a lot of these dumb owners.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Feb 2020, 3:29pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:So I walked through the park.
Around the corner through the hedge I saw several cyclist coming the other way.
The first three locked their brakes before narrowly avoiding me, The fourth managed to swerve around me.
They were young riders school children even.
The park has shared use that's a sign pedestrians and cyclists in the same circle I I RC.
I am simply not going to just jump into the hedge.

Crazy isn't it?

Cyclists going too fast. Shame they can't limit bike speed on mixed use paths.
I bet you weren't sure they'd stop or miss you. It's not just good enough you weren't hit but imho putting you into the position of considering jumping into a hedge is wrong too.

Sorry, but a bad attempt at mirroring previous post about the edited dog part of your post.

Simply put, my point is mixed use paths have mixed user types that mostly work on together except for a more noticeable minority who cause issues. Wherever you find one user type being criticised there will be another place where the other user types are being criticised. Each place makes out the bigger problem is the other groups.

The truth is all user groups on mixed use paths have a small number being the problem. Such that I'd say the real problem is the mixed use path. Wouldn't it be more constructive looking at the nature of mixed use paths and if unable to make them work then replacing with only compatible users on their own routes. Utterly unworkable but from numerous discussions on cyclists, pedestrians, joggers and dog walkers it's hardly working as it is now.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Feb 2020, 3:33pm

Last weekend I nearly got hit by a jogger who simply expected me to get out of his way. I did but regretted it. I'm 6'5" tall and nearly 90kg. He wasn't even close to that. Even cyclists would feel a hit with me. I moved because I'm certain he'd have barged my young son instead.

Another example of minority giving a user a bad rep. Lets keep giving examples and getting the discussion nowhere. :lol:

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby [XAP]Bob » 18 Feb 2020, 4:02pm

I’m significantly more “expectant” that people will get out of my way in a wheelchair than not, but there is at least some logic there. I’m quite happy to stop and wait at doors/narrow bits (I’m already sitting, waiting is easy) but given a clear path it’s actually a fair effort to slalom around people - steering is only accomplished by braking and pushing back up to speed.

In general people are sensibly accommodating - but the emergency stop is always an option.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

johncarnie
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby johncarnie » 20 Feb 2020, 9:31am

Scenario - Dog quite happily snuffling in the undergrowth next to the shared path totally ignoring me on the bike, owner sees me on the bike and calls the dog, who immediately turns and trots over to owner, I rapidly apply brakes to avoid dog, skid on the wet, slippery tarmac, end up in said undergrowth where dog has just pooped!
I suppose it's the natural instinct to call dog over, but just leaving the dog to it's own devices is often the best option!

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 20 Feb 2020, 11:16am

Hi,
Yeah been there done that worn the T-shirt.
Hence the be on the same side as your dog rule.
Makes sense doesn't it.
And I'm sure under their breath was going to fast :twisted:
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Lookrider
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Lookrider » 20 Feb 2020, 11:35am

mattsccm wrote:I get the same on a daily basis on my commute. I treat shared use paths as a place to move slowly, often walking pace near walkers. Seems reasonable to me. Dogs don't tend to be a problem until the owners call them to heel where upon the dog stops mooching in the bushes and stands confused in the middle of the track. I prefer dogs off the lead in most cases.
Like you, I suspect, I find that away from the honey pots the walkers thin out.
In the same way that cyclists like some concessions from faster movers on the roads I feel that walkers like that on shared use paths. As in any place, the faster over slows and gives way.
Should you maim a hound I suspect it would be a civil legal case in which case it would be your insurance company/legal advisers against theirs.




Maybe this has been posted already but theres way too many unrelated posts too scroll through

Last year a very much documented case was made very public and was in fact in the law courts so it is a legal outcome and not an opinion

A cyclist hit a pedestrian who was crossing the road at a crossing when her light was on red and the cyclist road traffic on green
The woman pedestrian was also oblivious to her surroundings as she was on her phone

Tbe judge ruled that the cyclist was also 50% to blame as he should be expecting/anticipating sudden movements ahead of him ( words too that effect)

The official judge quotes are above me but where related to the writings in the highway code .and I assume of legal remarks

How the cyclst is to blame fur any of it is beyond me ...but the law disagrees

This case was related to the road and highway code but I could assume it would be corrugated to footpaths therefore apportionating 50% responsibility to the cyclist

Maybe cycling UK have thete legal thoughts on this in one in there pages somewhere

I hope this helps the original post all these months back and any talk about dog mess etc be posted on dog pet sites as it's not really related to the post in question

mattheus
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mattheus » 20 Feb 2020, 11:54am

That is a judge's opinion of the law, as it applied to those circumstances. It will carry MUCH more weight in future cases than your opinion or mine, but it is still one interpretation of the law; it is not actual law. Precedent is important in UK courts, but it doesn't give you a cast-iron case; mainly because no 2 cases are identical.

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mjr
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mjr » 20 Feb 2020, 11:56am

Lookrider wrote:A cyclist hit a pedestrian who was crossing the road at a crossing when her light was on red and the cyclist road traffic on green
The woman pedestrian was also oblivious to her surroundings as she was on her phone
[...]
How the cyclst is to blame fur any of it is beyond me ...but the law disagrees

I think that's the Alliston case and if you search for it, you'll find key facts include that the cyclist was riding an un roadworthy track bike, plus made various unwise comments, plus his defence seemed not to challenge some dodgy parts of the prosecution case, possibly because they were irrelevant to guilt.

Nothing much to do with out of control dogs IMO.
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brooksby
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby brooksby » 20 Feb 2020, 4:18pm

mjr wrote:
Lookrider wrote:A cyclist hit a pedestrian who was crossing the road at a crossing when her light was on red and the cyclist road traffic on green
The woman pedestrian was also oblivious to her surroundings as she was on her phone
[...]
How the cyclst is to blame fur any of it is beyond me ...but the law disagrees

I think that's the Alliston case and if you search for it, you'll find key facts include that the cyclist was riding an un roadworthy track bike, plus made various unwise comments, plus his defence seemed not to challenge some dodgy parts of the prosecution case, possibly because they were irrelevant to guilt.

Nothing much to do with out of control dogs IMO.


I think it may have been actually a reference to this one:

https://road.cc/content/news/262582-cyc ... r-claimant

(But still not relevant to dogs...).

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mjr
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mjr » 20 Feb 2020, 4:31pm

brooksby wrote:
mjr wrote:
Lookrider wrote:A cyclist hit a pedestrian who was crossing the road at a crossing when her light was on red and the cyclist road traffic on green
The woman pedestrian was also oblivious to her surroundings as she was on her phone
[...]
How the cyclst is to blame fur any of it is beyond me ...but the law disagrees

I think that's the Alliston case [...]


I think it may have been actually a reference to this one:

https://road.cc/content/news/262582-cyc ... r-claimant

https://road.cc/content/blog/264304-cyc ... pedestrian says "the point where the pedestrians were crossing was not controlled by a red/green man" (contrary to Lookrider's description), and I'm surprised if anyone thinks a cyclist who accelerates towards crossing pedestrians and sounds a horn instead of braking is not to blame at all for a collision.

(But still not relevant to dogs...).

Indeed.
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Fairweather
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Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby Fairweather » 26 Feb 2020, 4:24am

I've long since avoided shared cycle paths as the results have never been enjoyable. Why oh why can't people keep their dogs on a leash?