Dogs off lead on shared use path

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Cugel
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Cugel »

Tangled Metal wrote:And dogs don't take over the roads on big sorties throwing gel wrappers and other rubbish into the side if the road without a care. At least most dog owners pick up the poop. If only every supportive rider took their rubbish home with them.

If course we can play the game of giving examples of bad behaviour all evening long but where does that get us? As a responsible dog owner and cyclist I make a lot of effort to walk the dog or ride my bike in a responsible way and I do confront others who I see don't if the chance arises. With both groups I have found bad behaviour to be a minority. It still gives ammunition against us when people see these minorities.


I have discussed this discussion with the collies and their opinion, which they have asked me to relay, is that y'all need a good nipping then putting in the pen.

And yes, they know all about that Ballantine and his pump manoeuvre so you can forget it! Or get a double nip and a crunched up pump as you're driven into the pen.

Cugel

PS I have picked up over 100 gel wrappers on Lancaster canal in my time as unofficial litter-picker. But that's nothing compared to the plastic water/coke bottle and crisp packet numbers. And let's not forget the various large pieces of rotted boat bits. And single running shoes. (??) And, oh, all sorts.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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robing
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by robing »

Tangled Metal wrote:And dogs don't take over the roads on big sorties throwing gel wrappers and other rubbish into the side if the road without a care. At least most dog owners pick up the poop. If only every supportive rider took their rubbish home with them.

If course we can play the game of giving examples of bad behaviour all evening long but where does that get us? As a responsible dog owner and cyclist I make a lot of effort to walk the dog or ride my bike in a responsible way and I do confront others who I see don't if the chance arises. With both groups I have found bad behaviour to be a minority. It still gives ammunition against us when people see these minorities.

I beg to differ. A lot of dog owners do not pick up. Sometimes it's deliberate (picking up dogshit isn't pleasant) sometimes it's because the dog is off lead and they're not watching they don't see it. Stayed at a campsite recently - dogshit everywhere.
I abhor littering too. But that's a much wider problem, only a fraction of littering is from cyclists.

What would you rather tread on? A gel wrapper or dogshit?
De Sisti
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by De Sisti »

Tangled Metal wrote:And dogs don't take over the roads on big sorties throwing gel wrappers and other rubbish into the side if the road without a care. At least most dog owners pick up the poop. If only every supportive rider took their rubbish home with them.

Not all dog owners pick up their pet's $h1t. Car drivers are responsible for throwing rubbish out of their vehicles onto our roads (including carrying out fly-tipping). :evil:
Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Tangled Metal »

And cyclists are responsible for litter too. It might not be the majority but cyclists aren't the majority neither.

Step on dog shoot or gel wrapper? Prefer to step on the wrapper of course but would still prefer the shoot on the floor than the plastic wrapper. You have to think long term damage to the environment over personal disgust over stepping on dog shoot.

I guess people have different experiences of dog shoot. I can honestly say the problem round here is a tiny fraction of what it used to be. I was a kid and it was everywhere. It's seriously not now. Although there could be an issue in some areas. I doubt those thugs with dogs pick up anything.

Round our neck of the woods we have a rare few problem dog owners. One's a runner with labradors. Tbe dogs run free and he never watches them. Other dog owners gave given him hell. Even made him pick it up once (without a bag). It's always big dog owners that are irresponsible round here. Usually labrador owners.

Being on a popular LEJOG route gel wrappers and other typical cyclist related rubbish is common.

Cugel - you must have been local to Lancaster at one time I reckon. They have a local canal litter pick round our neck of the woods too. Unfortunately I think they're aimed at retirees and other people who are free midweek during working hours.
robing
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by robing »

Tangled Metal wrote:And cyclists are responsible for litter too. It might not be the majority but cyclists aren't the majority neither.

Step on dog shoot or gel wrapper? Prefer to step on the wrapper of course but would still prefer the shoot on the floor than the plastic wrapper. You have to think long term damage to the environment over personal disgust over stepping on dog shoot.

I guess people have different experiences of dog shoot. I can honestly say the problem round here is a tiny fraction of what it used to be. I was a kid and it was everywhere. It's seriously not now. Although there could be an issue in some areas. I doubt those thugs with dogs pick up anything.

It's always big dog owners that are irresponsible round here.


I agree with you there. Husky owners too. Fwiw I'm not anti dog, I had a dog for many years myself. I was in some ways playing devil's advocate. However, since being dogless for almost a decade now, all I tend to see are the negatives - fouling, barking, and as a runner lots of poorly controlled dogs that will sometimes chase or just get in the way and trip you up. I really don't like dogs on campsites though and try and find dog free campsites or wild camping.
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Cugel
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Cugel »

Tangled Metal wrote:And cyclists are responsible for litter too. It might not be the majority but cyclists aren't the majority neither.

(snip)
Cugel - you must have been local to Lancaster at one time I reckon. They have a local canal litter pick round our neck of the woods too. Unfortunately I think they're aimed at retirees and other people who are free midweek during working hours.


I lived in and around Lancaster for 50 years after going there from Tyneside, where I was dragged up, to the then new uni. In the latter 25 years in the area I lived south of Lancaster near the canal, which I frequented nearly every day for one reason or another - photography hobby, dog-walking and so forth. I always took a carrier bag and always managed to fill them with rubbish, from the canal sections between Haverbreaks and Forton as well as down the Glasson Dock spur.

When I first began the litter picking I needed bin bags, there was so much. Gradually those areas became near litter-free, although hidden stuff was always revealed after the long summer growth died back. I became obsessive and have ripped many a ganzi scrambling up and down the banks to get the crisp bag or beer tin thrown up into the brambles. :-)

Here in West Wales, such casual rubbish chucking is very rare. There is a bit ejected from cars that sticks in the hedges. However, there seem to be dozens of litter pickers clearing that out here. I sometimes meet one whilst out on the bike. In Brechfa Forest, along over 100 miles of forestry roads and bridleways, I must have picked up about two plastic water bottles and one gel wrapper in the last 8 months. And we go there near every day dog walking between 4 and 8 miles a time.

The Lancaster canal rubbish probably amounted to thousands of bags over the years.

All this, by the way, was just me and my obsession, not part of any organised litter pick. I often met folk on the canal who complimented me on my picking, to which I would respond with the offer a carrier bag and an invitation to have a go themselves. The general response was, "I'm not picking up other people's rubbish"!

The only stuff I disliked was the dog poo in a plastic bag chucked into the hedge to hang there rotting. It still got bagged.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Cyril Haearn »

An obsession, a useful obsession, is there a medical term for that? I have had this obsession too, lots of stuff gets washed up on the fjord near home
Must look out for usable wood :wink:
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Tangled Metal »

There was a walking group trip I went on near Silverdale and turned back from talking to a mate when walking between two walls. There was a tree branch above my head but I ducked instinctively before I even saw what was dangling from the branch. In doing so I was inches from hitting full face a bag of poop with the UV and conditions having left the bag a series of holes. One touch and the contents drop.

I'm other side of Lancaster on the canal we use it every day for dog walking. It's pretty clean on the towpath but there's paths off towpath used by the youth of today. That means plenty of pop bottles, cans and probably remnants of smoking something herbal. There's bins every so often. Pooper scooping isn't really a chore with bins that common.

To get back to problems, whether walking, running, cycling with our son or walking the dog we often encounter cyclists riding far too fast for safety. We've even seen roadies at the majority of their road pace.
highwaycoderule56
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by highwaycoderule56 »

Rob, the answers are easy. The woman was totally in the wrong. You would not be liable for any injury to the woman's property (dog). She would have been liable for any injury or damage caused to you. It would be a civil matter, not criminal. The woman was in contravention to Highway Code Rule 56. Whilst this is not a crime, it will weigh heavily against her in a small claim case (magistrate court). Of course, it will weigh in your favour if you moderated your speed, used a bell to alert her to your approach, and took reasonable evasive action. For all these reasons I ALWAYS cycle with a helmet cam. You would not believe how people moderate their behaviour when they think they are being filmed. Most importantly, wearing a camera will also moderate YOUR behaviour.....there is no point filming an incident which is your fault!!!!

She may also have been in contravention of a councils Public Space Protection Order, which has the power to turn the requirement for a lead, or limit the number of dogs controlled, into an offence. Unfortunately, such PSPOs are somewhat toothless. Firstly, the offence is NOT committing the act restricted by the PSPO per se, but the offence is "failure to comply with an authorised person when told to comply". Our council (half the size of a county) has only 3 such authorised persons!!
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Tangled Metal wrote:And cyclists are responsible for litter too. It might not be the majority but cyclists aren't the majority neither.

Step on dog shoot or gel wrapper? Prefer to step on the wrapper of course but would still prefer the shoot on the floor than the plastic wrapper. You have to think long term damage to the environment over personal disgust over stepping on dog shoot.

I guess people have different experiences of dog shoot.


As a wheelchair user it is more than just inconvenient... it ends up on your hands however you push.

Cats bury their own, as does much of our native fauna (herbivores excepted). Guide dogs go *before* they go out, in a designated spot at home. It's not actually that hard to train a dog and then you don't need to think about where they'll go when out, because they won't.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Cugel
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Cugel »

highwaycoderule56 wrote:Rob, the answers are easy. The woman was totally in the wrong. You would not be liable for any injury to the woman's property (dog). .... (snip) .... For all these reasons I ALWAYS cycle with a helmet cam. You would not believe how people moderate their behaviour when they think they are being filmed. Most importantly, wearing a camera will also moderate YOUR behaviour.....there is no point filming an incident which is your fault!!!!

(snip)


Ha ha - I love to see those fellows with not just a silly plastic hat but also a small righteous-feather on the top, in the form of their dirty-deeds recorder. Of course, the dirty deeds are often many and various. Their alternative name is, "Things I don't approve of", which can become a tediously long list in the mind of the amateur Stasi fellows with their portable CCTVs.

What happens to all this head footage of dirty or unapproved deeds by the deadly dogs and their vicious owners? Do the recorders sit at home going over it all to discover the small dirty deed they missed because they were sucking at a gel packet before throwing it to the verge? Does the local rozzer station find itself awash with thousands of hours of "footage" from cycling-spies intent on "justice"? We will never know. Or care.

I am just hoping you aren't recommending the dog "properties" be deliberately injured in demonstration of your righteous indignation. That would be unjust, eh? Or is cruelty to animals merely their due for being in your way?

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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pwa
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by pwa »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:And cyclists are responsible for litter too. It might not be the majority but cyclists aren't the majority neither.

Step on dog shoot or gel wrapper? Prefer to step on the wrapper of course but would still prefer the shoot on the floor than the plastic wrapper. You have to think long term damage to the environment over personal disgust over stepping on dog shoot.

I guess people have different experiences of dog shoot.


As a wheelchair user it is more than just inconvenient... it ends up on your hands however you push.

Cats bury their own, as does much of our native fauna (herbivores excepted). Guide dogs go *before* they go out, in a designated spot at home. It's not actually that hard to train a dog and then you don't need to think about where they'll go when out, because they won't.


Not the cat that craps in the middle of our front lawn.

But yes, dogs can readily be trained to dump where you think it appropriate and not where you don't. I trained a dog to only poop on grass verges, rather than on paths, because there are always verges nearby and I could bag the poo easily there. The dog recognised grass verges as okay for that. You need a type of area rather than a specific place because you sometimes have to find a spot in a remote location when you are away from home.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by Tangled Metal »

Ok, most of our native fauna buries its pooo. I'll take that one to hunting and bushcraft sites and run it past people who use scat and other signs to hunt or track animals.

I'll also try not to imagine the fox poooo most dogs seem you like rolling in on walks. Definitely buried so the unmistakable smell must be imagined. Can your dog roll in buried poo without any digging involved?

Cat pooo on lawns and garden borders is a common annoyance to gardeners. You can read plenty of advice on stopping it online. Lion poo to citrus fruit juice to human, Male urine are some I've read in the past.

Most of our fauna bury their poo. Nice made up fact I reckon.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Tangled Metal wrote:Ok, most of our native fauna buries its pooo. I'll take that one to hunting and bushcraft sites and run it past people who use scat and other signs to hunt or track animals.

I'll also try not to imagine the fox poooo most dogs seem you like rolling in on walks. Definitely buried so the unmistakable smell must be imagined. Can your dog roll in buried poo without any digging involved?

Cat pooo on lawns and garden borders is a common annoyance to gardeners. You can read plenty of advice on stopping it online. Lion poo to citrus fruit juice to human, Male urine are some I've read in the past.

Most of our fauna bury their poo. Nice made up fact I reckon.


Ok, buried not the best choice of word... covered rather than buried.
But one of the advantages of it being covered is that it is generally in a place where it *can* be covered - and that is very rarely on a surfaced path.

I still rate dog faeces as a worse pollutant on shared use paths than any wrappers. Neither are necessary, and neither should be there at all.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pwa
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Post by pwa »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Ok, most of our native fauna buries its pooo. I'll take that one to hunting and bushcraft sites and run it past people who use scat and other signs to hunt or track animals.

I'll also try not to imagine the fox poooo most dogs seem you like rolling in on walks. Definitely buried so the unmistakable smell must be imagined. Can your dog roll in buried poo without any digging involved?

Cat pooo on lawns and garden borders is a common annoyance to gardeners. You can read plenty of advice on stopping it online. Lion poo to citrus fruit juice to human, Male urine are some I've read in the past.

Most of our fauna bury their poo. Nice made up fact I reckon.


Ok, buried not the best choice of word... covered rather than buried.
But one of the advantages of it being covered is that it is generally in a place where it *can* be covered - and that is very rarely on a surfaced path.

I still rate dog faeces as a worse pollutant on shared use paths than any wrappers. Neither are necessary, and neither should be there at all.

Not disagreeing with that as I dislike both. But I think the most environmentally acceptable way of dealing with dog poo in the wrong place (where folk are likely to come into contact with it) is to flick it with a stick into a hedge or brambles if the location provides that. One nature reserve I walk in actually has signs up recommending that. Nature deals with poo, but you don't want it where we can come into contact with it while nature is at work.
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