Dogs off lead on shared use path

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Sep 2019, 10:06pm

Most dogs don't do all that neither.

Dogs don't ride furiously and kill someone's mother, ride through red lights then head but anyone who says anything about it, etc. Things that's hit the news this past news.

Things I've seen cyclists do but never seen a dog do includes, riding on the wrong side of the road including with no lights in the dark. Riding through red lights, riding through red light send diagonally across a busy t junction forcing vehicles to emergency brake like they weren't aware or bothered by anything else on the roads. Or obnoxious, self opinionated cyclists giving their views on other cyclists choice about helmets otherwise known at helmet nazi's. There's so much bad behaviour of cyclists I've seen but I can't go as far as labelling all cyclists like people on here seem to do about dogs and dog owners.

In fact it reminds me of the way car drivers talk about cyclists. Cyclists often forget there's a lot of dog owners are cyclists too. :wink:

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mjr
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mjr » 17 Sep 2019, 10:42pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Things I've seen cyclists do but never seen a dog do includes, riding on the wrong side of the road including with no lights in the dark. Riding through red lights, riding through red light send diagonally across a busy t junction forcing vehicles to emergency brake like they weren't aware or bothered by anything else on the roads.

Dogs have done all those, but running not riding.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Sep 2019, 10:45pm

mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Things I've seen cyclists do but never seen a dog do includes, riding on the wrong side of the road including with no lights in the dark. Riding through red lights, riding through red light send diagonally across a busy t junction forcing vehicles to emergency brake like they weren't aware or bothered by anything else on the roads.

Dogs have done all those, but running not riding.

And cyclists have done that too but they're supposedly civilised and capable of behaving responsibly and to the rules. So does that not make it worse?

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mjr
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mjr » 17 Sep 2019, 11:35pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Things I've seen cyclists do but never seen a dog do includes, riding on the wrong side of the road including with no lights in the dark. Riding through red lights, riding through red light send diagonally across a busy t junction forcing vehicles to emergency brake like they weren't aware or bothered by anything else on the roads.

Dogs have done all those, but running not riding.

And cyclists have done that too but they're supposedly civilised and capable of behaving responsibly and to the rules. So does that not make it worse?

Probably.

Definitely means your argument had gone a bit crazy, though.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Sep 2019, 8:44am

mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
mjr wrote:Dogs have done all those, but running not riding.

And cyclists have done that too but they're supposedly civilised and capable of behaving responsibly and to the rules. So does that not make it worse?

Probably.

Definitely means your argument had gone a bit crazy, though.

Why? I was only making the point that there were similar levels of generalisations and collectivisation of dogs/ dog owners as there are about cyclists. One gets promoted in here but the other gets roundly condemned. Double standards in that attitude?

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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby mjr » 18 Sep 2019, 8:56am

Tangled Metal wrote:
mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:And cyclists have done that too but they're supposedly civilised and capable of behaving responsibly and to the rules. So does that not make it worse?

Probably.

Definitely means your argument had gone a bit crazy, though.

Why? I was only making the point that there were similar levels of generalisations and collectivisation of dogs/ dog owners as there are about cyclists. One gets promoted in here but the other gets roundly condemned. Double standards in that attitude?

No double standards, except maybe that I prioritise cyclists so have to let doggists post in their own defence. Maybe you meant to only make that point (which has some merit) but the second attempt (to which I replied) had strayed beyond that into exaggerated misleading claims that dogs never do stuff they have.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Sep 2019, 9:37am

No I gave examples of stuff cyclist do that gets defended by pointing out a ridiculous idea of dogs riding bikes like a protein of cyclists do. Do you not find the image of a dog RLJing on a bike slightly ludicrous?

Fair enough you defend those doing the same activity that you do. Concentrate on your interests is fair point and positive. However it is negative to set up a confrontational attitude towards other groups by lumping a minority together with three majority who do not cause these issues. I just point out there are similarities in this with how cyclists are considered by other road users. Go on a doggy forum I'm sure you'll see people condemning cyclists for riding like maniacs on mixed use paths putting the dogs and walkers at risk in the process.

Division and pointless. Them and us approach. Perhaps more weight and benefit gained from forums highlighting bad behaviour among their own ranks. Or confronting bad behaviours among their own ranks when they see it. Easier to condemn the others than sort out your own kind I suppose.

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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby brynpoeth » 18 Sep 2019, 7:09pm

Please to provide a link to a suitable doggy forum
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Sep 2019, 8:21pm

I don't know any tbh. I've only looked at one for border terriers but it wasn't very active. It was the forum for a very active breed association though which surprised me their forum was dead.

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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby robing » 18 Sep 2019, 8:40pm

I forgot barking. Makes neighbours lives a misery.

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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby ossie » 18 Sep 2019, 9:04pm

I live on a major shared use path. Sustrans have adopted it and its a main cycling route to a port. Its also a pedestrian route to the nearest village and used by school children,

As a cyclist and dog owner who uses it daily I'm afraid its the the behaviour of some cyclists who overshadow the behaviour of dog owners. I have a bell, most don't and some simply don't care whats in their path. They don't make their presence known and they refuse to slow down.

As a cyclist with a bell , apart from old folk who can't hear me nearly every dog owner will attempt to pull their dog in if warned and a thankyou, good morning is usually reciprocated.

I think the country is going through a transition and its simply not used to this shared path ethos. I've cycled thousands of miles abroad where many paths are shared use and you simply don't get the drama and potential for confrontation that you get here. People with dogs also have their dogs under better control I find, so closer and far less of these extendable leads.Pedestrians are also far more aware of their surroundings. That said they still have the same number of completely inconsiderate cyclists (and probably dog owners)..

Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Sep 2019, 10:33pm

Our dog runs nicely alongside our bikes on the canal or off road routes. It's what some MTBers call a trail dog. As such when we're walking with it the dog knows how to behave around bikes. She simply moves away and sits to let the cyclists by. Predictable behaviour but we hold her because others do not know her.

Thing is most if not all dog owners I see do the same if they know the cyclist is approaching. That's not easy to do when cyclists are not noisy and don't alert people of their presence until too late. The biggest reason to hold your dog is to stop the risk of injury if the bike hit it. Which imho is significant point.

In cycle friendly countries such as Holland and Belgium I've noticed that there's a hierarchy in the duty if care practised by society. Cars are responsible for looking out for cyclists and pedestrians. Cyclists look out for pedestrians. Basically the more vulnerable road or path user is protected by the other road or path users who are less vulnerable. It works. There's no conflict between cars and bikes on roads. No conflict between cyclists and pedestrians on paths.

That's not the case on mixed use paths round me. Canal towpath near me often has issues of cyclists with squealing brakes to stop hitting pedestrians other side of the bridges. They're going too fast for the path and other users. It's not all but certainly more cases than I saw in 2 weeks in Holland, 2 weeks in Belgium and even 2 weeks in France.

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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Flinders » 22 Sep 2019, 7:00pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Most dogs don't do all that neither.

Dogs don't ride furiously and kill someone's mother, ride through red lights then head but anyone who says anything about it, etc. Things that's hit the news this past news.

Things I've seen cyclists do but never seen a dog do includes, riding on the wrong side of the road including with no lights in the dark. Riding through red lights, riding through red light send diagonally across a busy t junction forcing vehicles to emergency brake like they weren't aware or bothered by anything else on the roads. Or obnoxious, self opinionated cyclists giving their views on other cyclists choice about helmets otherwise known at helmet nazi's. There's so much bad behaviour of cyclists I've seen but I can't go as far as labelling all cyclists like people on here seem to do about dogs and dog owners.

In fact it reminds me of the way car drivers talk about cyclists. Cyclists often forget there's a lot of dog owners are cyclists too. :wink:


How many humans were killed by out-of-control dogs this year (including children)? Compared to how many humans killed by cyclists doing the things you mention? What 'hits the news' is not statistics, indeed, it's quite often exceptions to stats that get publicity.

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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Mike Sales » 22 Sep 2019, 7:33pm

One thing you can say for cyclists: they don't sh1t in the street.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs off lead on shared use path

Postby Tangled Metal » 22 Sep 2019, 9:16pm

And dogs don't take over the roads on big sorties throwing gel wrappers and other rubbish into the side if the road without a care. At least most dog owners pick up the poop. If only every supportive rider took their rubbish home with them.

If course we can play the game of giving examples of bad behaviour all evening long but where does that get us? As a responsible dog owner and cyclist I make a lot of effort to walk the dog or ride my bike in a responsible way and I do confront others who I see don't if the chance arises. With both groups I have found bad behaviour to be a minority. It still gives ammunition against us when people see these minorities.