Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

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mattheus
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by mattheus »

If anyone here really thinks that drivers RLJing isnt a problem, just google something like:
red light jump kill

(I doubt you'll need to scroll down very far, but this may depend on your settings/history ... )
Barks
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Barks »

So after 35 years of this, does anyone think we can eradicate RLJs??
I live west if London just outside M25, RLJ ing is endemic - there should be cameras on every set of lights as far as I am concerned with FPNs issued automatically and commensurate extra penalty for those that repeat. I don’t care whether it is drivers or people on bikes (oh and zebra crossings too).
Bonefishblues
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Bonefishblues »

Where there's a will:
https://youtu.be/BVki24JH7s4
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Spinners
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Spinners »

mattheus wrote:
Spinners wrote:
mattheus wrote:
Just so we're clear; is the above acceptable (and safe) behaviour in your eyes?


Both mean stop so absolutely not.

What is your view?


I think they're usually a bad thing. What confused me was this:

Spinners wrote:
mjr wrote:while cyclists jumping obligatory reds may be annoying and I don't defend it, it pales into insignificance compared to the numbers and consequences of motorists doing it



Consequences? I totally agree.

Numbers? I really must be living in a different country because I never see motorists going through on red and I speak as someone who drove as part of their job for about 35 years.


So you ARE seeing plenty of drivers go through red 1-2 seconds late. Correct?


Plenty is a word you are introducing, so incorrect.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Tangled Metal »

Spinners wrote:
mjr wrote:while cyclists jumping obligatory reds may be annoying and I don't defend it, it pales into insignificance compared to the numbers and consequences of motorists doing it



Consequences? I totally agree.

Numbers? I really must be living in a different country because I never see motorists going through on red and I speak as someone who drove as part of their job for about 35 years.

Possibly location based thing.

If you're ever passing Lancaster area give me a pm I'll direct you to a junction to spot motorists jumping red lights.

There's a supermarket carpark for you to park up in right next to it. You'll probably need only a handful of light cycles before you see it happen. I can't make it any easier for you I'm afraid. There's no cafe there or bus shelter for you to observe from so hope it's good weather if you come here. :D
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Spinners
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Spinners »

PH wrote:
I do a lot of urban riding (Deliveroo) I regularly go through red lights, most often when turning left when I can see no one else is doing so, or on otherwise empty roads, or on some junctions I'll bypass them by hopping onto the pavement.



Unacceptable and exactly the sort of behaviour that makes almost all motorists hate us.
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Barks
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Barks »

Bonefishblues wrote:Where there's a will:
https://youtu.be/BVki24JH7s4

Let’s have them on every TL junction, and set so go up 1 millisecond before end of amber (I was initially feeling generous with 1 millisecond after red light shows).
Last edited by Barks on 17 Jul 2019, 1:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
mattheus
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by mattheus »

Well, spinners, you went from:
none in 35 years of driving for work
to:
<some>

... so I think that's a change of some kind! You tell US how big.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Bonefishblues »

Barks wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Where there's a will:
https://youtu.be/BVki24JH7s4

Let’s have them on every TL junction, and set so go up 1 millisecond before end of amber (I was initially feeling generous with 1 millisecond after red light shows).

With blowpipes and poisoned darts for cyclists :wink:
mattheus
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by mattheus »

Spinners wrote:
PH wrote:
I do a lot of urban riding (Deliveroo) I regularly go through red lights, most often when turning left when I can see no one else is doing so, or on otherwise empty roads, or on some junctions I'll bypass them by hopping onto the pavement.



Unacceptable and exactly the sort of behaviour that makes almost all motorists hate us.


I think this shows a weak grasp on reality. On 2 counts:
- the majority of motorists are reasonable people, they don't hate anyone.
- of the <debateable> number who do hate us, do you really think it was entirely caused by RLJs??


(If we really did live in a world where almost all motorists hate cyclists, it's laughable to think that just eradicating RLJs would win even half of them over :P )

p.s. poetd has done excellent work in stirring up this hornet's nest - good work sirrah!
PH
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by PH »

Spinners wrote:
PH wrote:
I do a lot of urban riding (Deliveroo) I regularly go through red lights, most often when turning left when I can see no one else is doing so, or on otherwise empty roads, or on some junctions I'll bypass them by hopping onto the pavement.



Unacceptable and exactly the sort of behaviour that makes almost all motorists hate us.

But why?
Go to any of the European countries where cycling is popular and it's pretty much standard behaviour (Where the planners haven't already allowed for it) yet there isn't the same sort of hate from motorists. So just what do you think it's about?
If you go to Amsterdam and stop at a pedestrian crossing red light when there's no pedestrians the bikes behind are likely to run straight into you...
Last edited by PH on 17 Jul 2019, 1:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spinners
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Spinners »

mattheus wrote:Well, spinners, you went from:
none in 35 years of driving for work
to:
<some>

... so I think that's a change of some kind! You tell US how big.


Nice try but you're missing the point of my own post seeking clarification of what we mean by going through a red light.

I maintain that I've never seen any motorist go up to a (already on) red light and then go through or turn left. Sadly, I've seen POB's do this as recently as yesterday.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Tangled Metal »

poetd wrote:
tatanab wrote:sorry, but these are clichés and stereotypes bred from gutter press and they are frequent subjects on this forum. e.g. how to pass a bunch of cyclists and why they may occupy a full lane to prevent an unsafe pass. Why they are not riding 4 abreast, it is simply 2 abreast with a slight stagger to each pair.


It's a stereotype some live do up to though.
2 weeks ago we were driving to Malham for a day out. 1 pack in front of us for at least 2 miles, 3-4 abreast, oncoming traffic meant we had no opportunity to pass, eventually getting to a straight where we had enough time to get passed. They knew we were there but didn't make any attempt to budge.

Couple of miles further on we passed another pack, all single file, passed them with no problems.

Cliche? Yes. Justified? Often so it seems.

Driving to Malham from which direction?

From memory (it's been less than a year since I last went that way so the roads might have changed right?). Anyway those roads are not exactly that wide in that area. I've driven it many, many times and IMHO with the blind bends and narrow lane nature of those roads I have been quite happy to sit and wait behind cyclists for a safe passing opportunity. It has taken a long time before now. Even with one or two in a line I've waited. It's what you're required to do. They are not holding you up. They're a road user too.

As I said, I'd like to know which roads you were on because I doubt you'd be able to pass even single file pack of cyclists in any significant number on a lot of the roads up there.

Just reread the post and spotted the second group you amazingly found easy to pass. Because they're in single file apparently. Did that really happen? Come on, the lanes up there make me doubt your story.

Trolling for lolz right?
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Spinners
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by Spinners »

PH wrote:
Spinners wrote:
PH wrote:
I do a lot of urban riding (Deliveroo) I regularly go through red lights, most often when turning left when I can see no one else is doing so, or on otherwise empty roads, or on some junctions I'll bypass them by hopping onto the pavement.



Unacceptable and exactly the sort of behaviour that makes almost all motorists hate us.

But why?
Go to any of the European countries where cycling is popular and it's pretty much standard behaviour (Where the planners haven't already allowed for it) yet there isn't the same sort of hate from motorists. So just what do you think it's about?


We're on the same page when it comes to getting decent cycling facilities but if they don't exist we shouldn't just do what we want because it's the planner's fault!
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PH
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Re: Red means STOP! or How I began to hate cyclists.

Post by PH »

Spinners wrote:
PH wrote:
Spinners wrote:
Unacceptable and exactly the sort of behaviour that makes almost all motorists hate us.

But why?
Go to any of the European countries where cycling is popular and it's pretty much standard behaviour (Where the planners haven't already allowed for it) yet there isn't the same sort of hate from motorists. So just what do you think it's about?


We're on the same page when it comes to getting decent cycling facilities but if they don't exist we shouldn't just do what we want because it's the planner's fault!

You've missed the question - Why do motorists hate people on bikes in the UK but not in other countries for the same behaviour?
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