Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Stradageek
Posts: 630
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Stradageek » 24 Jul 2019, 5:28pm

Please, please just chat with them.

Start with something they can show off doing to help them establish some level of much needed self esteem.

My favourites are "Can you pop a wheelie" they usually can. Then complement them "blimey I wish I could do that" then ask them how long they can pop a wheelie for etc. etc.

These kids usually spend most of their lives being yelled at by teachers, parents (if they are around), police or the public. You'll be amazed how positively they will respond to a little bit of interest and attention.

You could easily gain some new friends.

I've worked with kids like these in youth clubs for years, I'm 60+ and a 10-stone weakling and I've never had any cause to feel afraid.

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bigjim
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby bigjim » 24 Jul 2019, 5:55pm

Talking to a pal today. He told me that yesterday he was cycling the Fallowfield loop with his wife. They have recently acquired two new electric bikes. He was in front a her by a couple of hundred yards. heard her scream. Looking back he sees her on the floor with one youth getting on her bike while another youth sat astride his bike watching. he raced back in time to drag the thief off the bike and belt him one. The other thug rode off. His wife was ok but shaken and nursing a heavily bruised shoulder where she had been dragged off the bike. They rode away leaving the thief on the floor. Police were informed but their reaction was, "well it's the school holidays".
He didn't bother chatting with the youths.
Nothing left to prove.

reohn2
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby reohn2 » 24 Jul 2019, 7:17pm

bigjim wrote:Talking to a pal today. He told me that yesterday he was cycling the Fallowfield loop with his wife. They have recently acquired two new electric bikes. He was in front a her by a couple of hundred yards. heard her scream. Looking back he sees her on the floor with one youth getting on her bike while another youth sat astride his bike watching. he raced back in time to drag the thief off the bike and belt him one. The other thug rode off. His wife was ok but shaken and nursing a heavily bruised shoulder where she had been dragged off the bike. They rode away leaving the thief on the floor. Police were informed but their reaction was, "well it's the school holidays".
He didn't bother chatting with the youths.

The police have lost control,society is well on the slide.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby skyhawk » 24 Jul 2019, 8:02pm

Stradageek wrote:Please, please just chat with them.

Start with something they can show off doing to help them establish some level of much needed self esteem.

My favourites are "Can you pop a wheelie" they usually can. Then complement them "blimey I wish I could do that" then ask them how long they can pop a wheelie for etc. etc.

These kids usually spend most of their lives being yelled at by teachers, parents (if they are around), police or the public. You'll be amazed how positively they will respond to a little bit of interest and attention.

You could easily gain some new friends.

I've worked with kids like these in youth clubs for years, I'm 60+ and a 10-stone weakling and I've never had any cause to feel afraid.



In YOUR dreams, it's hug a hoodie all over again, sorry
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

GranvilleThomas
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Location: Caerphilly

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby GranvilleThomas » 24 Jul 2019, 8:04pm

Obviously the best thing to do is to buy a car and then you just have to walk down the driveway and lock yourself in a metal box from one end of the journey to another.

There you are OP, that is the answer, give up the bike because if you don't you will be attacked by youth's - that has to be the answer to your problem - amazing, why didn't I think of it sooner.

The local SPAR got robbed last week, (no really) so I have advised my daughters, that whatever they do, never ever work in a shop, because all shops will be robbed and they will be in danger, as it happens to every shop all the time.

They agree and they have decided to never leave the house ever again as it is far too dangerous.

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby skyhawk » 24 Jul 2019, 8:16pm

GranvilleThomas wrote:Obviously the best thing to do is to buy a car and then you just have to walk down the driveway and lock yourself in a metal box from one end of the journey to another.

There you are OP, that is the answer, give up the bike because if you don't you will be attacked by youth's - that has to be the answer to your problem - amazing, why didn't I think of it sooner.

The local SPAR got robbed last week, (no really) so I have advised my daughters, that whatever they do, never ever work in a shop, because all shops will be robbed and they will be in danger, as it happens to every shop all the time.

They agree and they have decided to never leave the house ever again as it is far too dangerous.




There is a difference between being careful and cautious.

I and my son/s have lived in England, Wales, Devon, Cornwall, Scotland and (unfortunately) Pontefract, so have seen more than most, we all know there is crime, weekly attacks, we as intelligent people do what we consider best to lessen the possibility of "problems".

YES I cross over rather than pass a large group of youngsters, I have locks on my home doors and windows, there are places I would happily walk after dark and places I could take you.......... and leave you after dark, in large towns and wish you good luck, don't exaggerate in your post, it is called common sense, and don't make light of real things that have happened and changed unfortunate peoples lives forever

Here is one example of many hundreds. None of us stop going out because of it but don't exaggerate, just because people want to be cautious and safe does not mean ridiculing them

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/m ... d-15423468

As an Autistic person, and one who knows and mixes with MANY MANY Autistic, disabled, mentally handicapped people, YOU need to think how others are affected even by by perceived threats

I should not have had to have, as a single father, brought up my three AUTISTIC sons to GIVE a mugger all their belongings, don't argue, hand everything over, always be cautious at night, if you see trouble run away, but I have, am I wrong to have done so, ????????

Women are told daily, dress down, be aware of your surroundings and who is around, this is not scare tactics it is safety advice.
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

GranvilleThomas
Posts: 75
Joined: 1 Apr 2015, 9:58am
Location: Caerphilly

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby GranvilleThomas » 24 Jul 2019, 8:28pm

skyhawk wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:Obviously the best thing to do is to buy a car and then you just have to walk down the driveway and lock yourself in a metal box from one end of the journey to another.

There you are OP, that is the answer, give up the bike because if you don't you will be attacked by youth's - that has to be the answer to your problem - amazing, why didn't I think of it sooner.

The local SPAR got robbed last week, (no really) so I have advised my daughters, that whatever they do, never ever work in a shop, because all shops will be robbed and they will be in danger, as it happens to every shop all the time.

They agree and they have decided to never leave the house ever again as it is far too dangerous.





There is a difference between being careful and cautious.

I and my son/s have lived in England, Wales, Devon, Cornwall, Scotland and (unfortunately) Pontefract, so have seen more than most, we all know there is crime, weekly attacks, we as intelligent people do what we consider best to lessen the possibility of "problems".

YES I cross over rather than pass a large group of youngsters, I have locks on my home doors and windows, there are places I would happily walk after dark and places I could take you.......... and leave you after dark, in large towns and wish you good luck, don't exaggerate in your post, it is called common sense, and don't make light of real things that have happened and changed unfortunate peoples lives forever

Here is one example of many hundreds. None of us stop going out because of it but don't exaggerate, just because people want to be cautious and safe does not mean ridiculing them

As an Autistic person, and one who knows and mixes with MANY MANY Autistic, disabled, mentally handicapped people, YOU need to think how others are affected by perceived threats

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/m ... d-15423468



My comments were not directed at you, just generally, but we will just have to agree to disagree. Most youngsters are just young people and pose no threat to anyone, in fact I used to be one myself a long time ago - did you?

I was a punk rocker in the 80's, when I was a teenager, with a leather jacket, big German army boots and a mohican hair style, most of my mates were the same and do you know what? we would not have hurt a fly, as is still the case today. We were just young and trying to make a statement to the world.

Trouble is most people read the 'scare stories' in the likes of the Daily Mail etc and believe them. I'm sorry but I for one will not fall for these scare tactics as the majority of young people are great.

I have teenage children myself and they are great people, with dyed hair and tattoos as are their friends - paranoia helps no-one.

Are you suggesting that all young people should be banned from the streets?

AMMoffat
Posts: 220
Joined: 1 Dec 2007, 1:05pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby AMMoffat » 24 Jul 2019, 9:12pm

MOARspeed wrote:Part of my commute takes me onto a national cycle route, I use it to avoid the main road which is basically two lanes up a long hill, with drivers so obsessed with racing each other that they'll pass cyclists stupidly close.

I've had no problem for around 3 weeks, cycling 4 days, driving on Wednesdays (shopping day), but twice now on that section i've encountered a 6-7 strong group of rough looking lads on tatty mountain bikes with the saddles dropped and tipped backwards, in their mid to late teens, first time they shouted some random **** and that was it, 2nd time next day the same but at least two of them tried to catch up to me, I'm not incredibly fit any more and I walk the final section which avoids a nasty roundabout. The whole of this cycle route is away from the road, it runs through the backs of houses and through wooded areas.

I may never see them again, but having these lads trying to catch up to me has got me spooked, it's the end of my commute home and i'm not fast enough at that stage to out run trouble, equally I consider the road route to be lethal (I even drive an additional 2 miles to avoid it in my car).

What's the best approach here?


No-one on here can advise you as to whether that particular group is okay. However you could try speaking to them and joining in the spirit of a "race". Groups of youths are usually just hanging out together and trying to find/make some entertainment. I have often (as a lone female) had a bit of a race with a group of unknown youths all for a bit of fun. I think it is sad that these days any group of teenagers is viewed with suspicion. Most are just trying to entertain themselves, much as I did when that age, with no malice intended. However only you can make a judgement as to which category this particular bunch fall into.

alexnharvey
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby alexnharvey » 25 Jul 2019, 8:19am

The Gift of Fear https://g.co/kgs/6zZddX

https://www.cyclescape.org/issues/3079- ... d-dna-path

It is not easy to distinguish between the idle youths, those who only want to intimidate for their amusement and those who could or would like to do you harm. All one has to go on in the moment is our own sense of the situation and I urge you and others not to ignore fear.

My job occasionally requires me to be in a room with a person with a history of harming others. I always follow the advice a supervisor gave me, that if you're not sure if you're safe (i.e. you start to feel some fear) get out of the situation and then reassess. Don't sit there trying to think or talk your way out of it, or even bothering to think of a pretext for leaving. "Stand not upon the order of your going but go at once."

Similarly, there's no clever or right answer to a person seeking to initiate an altercation. The classic used to be "are you looking at me?". If someone seems to be looking for trouble then you are already in it. If you can escape, do it, ride hard and ride straight even if people are in your way. If there are people around you might shout for help. If there's no escape and noone around take verbal aggression for the precursor of violence that it may be and react appropriately.

I volunteered in a cooperative bike workshop for many years and found that a great way to interact with and mentor young people. I cannot believe that anyone who has actually worked with young people doesn't know that they can be impulsive and do dangerous things without thinking about the consequences. You have to be alert to escalating tensions between the young people, anticipate escalation and defuse the situation.
I don't wear my mentoring hat when I'm riding along an isolated path at dusk and someone is behaving aggressively and trying to intimidate me and I think it's foolish and dangerous to advise this.

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Tangled Metal » 25 Jul 2019, 8:42am

Best form of self defence is not to be there.

Words of advice from a then 6th Dan ju jitsu instructor on a casual clothes self defence session for members of the club be ran. As a former army close quarters fighting instructor, close protection trainer / operator and police restraint / self defence trainer he had very good advice.

Another two pieces of advice included that no matter how good you were aye martial arts / self defence someone can, always get lucky / someone will always be better than you. Something to bear in mind to all my fellow 6+ footers with martial arts training who thinks nothing will happen to you.

Vorpal
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Vorpal » 25 Jul 2019, 8:57am

skyhawk wrote:Women are told daily, dress down, be aware of your surroundings and who is around, this is not scare tactics it is safety advice.

This is victim blaming, not safety advice.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 77656.html
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-do-p ... e5a7a06154
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/why-dres ... o6wza.html
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

alexnharvey
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby alexnharvey » 25 Jul 2019, 9:19am

It's simplistic to suggest it must be one or the other, safey advice or victim blaming. I'd like my children to live in a world as we wish it to be and must also prepare them for the world as they will find it.

I certainly am teaching my sons to be aware of their surroundings and who is around them. If they were assaulted I would not be suggesting to them that they were to blame.
Last edited by alexnharvey on 25 Jul 2019, 9:24am, edited 1 time in total.

Vorpal
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Vorpal » 25 Jul 2019, 9:24am

alexnharvey wrote:It's simplistic to suggest if must be one or the other, safey advice or victim blaming. If like my children to live in a world as we wish it to be and must also prepare them for the world as they will find it.

Paying attention to our surroundings might be safety advice.

It is, however, not simplistic to suggest that women's clothing has nothing to do with safety. Telling women what to wear as 'safety advice' is part of a victim blaming culture. What women wear has *nothing* to do with personal safety, unless they are participating in a sport that requires safety equipment.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

alexnharvey
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby alexnharvey » 25 Jul 2019, 9:25am

Vorpal wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:It's simplistic to suggest if must be one or the other, safey advice or victim blaming. If like my children to live in a world as we wish it to be and must also prepare them for the world as they will find it.

Paying attention to our surroundings might be safety advice.

It is, however, not simplistic to suggest that women's clothing has nothing to do with safety. Telling women what to wear as 'safety advice' is part of a victim blaming culture. What women wear has *nothing* to do with it.


Agreed. Not convinced on the headphone point in your first link though, they certainly diminish situational awareness.

Vorpal
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Vorpal » 25 Jul 2019, 9:29am

alexnharvey wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:It's simplistic to suggest if must be one or the other, safey advice or victim blaming. If like my children to live in a world as we wish it to be and must also prepare them for the world as they will find it.

Paying attention to our surroundings might be safety advice.

It is, however, not simplistic to suggest that women's clothing has nothing to do with safety. Telling women what to wear as 'safety advice' is part of a victim blaming culture. What women wear has *nothing* to do with it.


Agreed. Not convinced on the headphone point in your first link though.

Headphones might be a distraction, but to me, they are more like clothing. Most people can hear fine through headphones. People often wear them because they don't want to talk to other people. People are unlikely to tell a 6' tall burly rugby player that they shouldn't wear headphones in public for personal safety reasons. Why should they tell a woman that?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom