Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
mercalia
Posts: 11668
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby mercalia » 26 Jul 2019, 12:52pm

alexnharvey wrote:It seems like that a number of posters are unable to distinguish between,

A) the person who is scared to go out because they perceive the world as very dangerous and

b) the person who does go out and encounters a potentially dangerous situation.

It seems extremely important to me to distinguish between the two because in A the fear is inappropriate and unhelpful and in B it may be both helpful and appropriate. That is not to say that one should become overwhelmed or panic in B, of course.

The media does indeed skew perceptions of danger. That doesn't mean that dangers don't exist.



well if you want your fear sensitivity put in overdrive have a read of this
http://news.met.police.uk/latest_news

poetd
Posts: 92
Joined: 16 Jul 2019, 6:12pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby poetd » 26 Jul 2019, 12:56pm

Totally agree Alex.
There are definite dangers out there.

Knowledge of areas and being informed is vital and if you're unsure, as has been repeated enough in the thread - try and avoid them if you can.

But also don't fall for the fear-hype that every gang of kids are knife-wielding thugs - that kind of thinking leads to shut-ins and misery, which is no good. There are lots of good kids out there that will likely never harm anyone.
And it's always been that way.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby pete75 » 26 Jul 2019, 2:06pm

rob_wales wrote:This is going to sound a tad paranoid. The UK is changing. Rapidly. Behavior is getting worse. Most people seem to have a growing sense of injustice and resentment. Austerity didn't help, and Brexit has taken things down to another low level. Social media is another main culprit. My general advice is to avoid everything as much as possible, especially involving people of a certain type (you know what I mean). Travel by car unless it is safe to cycle, especially for women. I've read quite a few of the other comments here. Some of them seem to be written by ex teachers and youth workers from the 1970s taking a very sympathetic view to youth. I don't trust anyone.


No I don't know what you mean please explain.

Carlton green
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Carlton green » 26 Jul 2019, 2:59pm

pete75 wrote:
rob_wales wrote:My general advice is to avoid everything as much as possible, especially[b] involving people of a certain type (you know what I mean)


No I don't know what you mean please explain.


I knew what he meant but I also know that it’s too simplistic to look at people and judge whether they are good people or not. However, there are times when all you have to form a judgement on is stereotypical information which whilst imperfect is usually better than nothing at all. A wise man would keep away from both ‘skin heads’ and ‘football fans’, of course that’s prejudice because individuals might be perfectly fine, but historically that’s not always been the case.

Rob might choose to explain for himself. I hope that my interpretation helps somebody and isn’t viewed as unfairly judgemental, but rather as someone’s reaction to try to simplify complex choices related to personal safety and risk reduction.

pete75
Posts: 11985
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby pete75 » 26 Jul 2019, 4:45pm

Carlton green wrote:A wise man would keep away from both ‘skin heads’ and ‘football fans’, of course that’s prejudice because individuals might be perfectly fine, but historically that’s not always been the case.

Rob might choose to explain for himself. I hope that my interpretation helps somebody and isn’t viewed as unfairly judgemental, but rather as someone’s reaction to try to simplify complex choices related to personal safety and risk reduction.


I can't be a wise man then. I worked in an office full of football fans for many years and I didn't keep away from them.

reohn2
Posts: 36712
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2019, 5:11pm

poetd wrote:Totally agree Alex.
There are definite dangers out there.

Knowledge of areas and being informed is vital and if you're unsure, as has been repeated enough in the thread - try and avoid them if you can.

That seems to indicate there are no go areas in the UK for an average citizen,which,and this isn't criticism of your statement,is a sad state of affairs.
What needs asking is why?


But also don't fall for the fear-hype that every gang of kids are knife-wielding thugs - that kind of thinking leads to shut-ins and misery, which is no good. There are lots of good kids out there that will likely never harm anyone.
And it's always been that way.

Agreed but the problem is knowing the difference.Which isn't always easy to ascertain,more so for a more timid character.
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reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2019, 5:16pm

pete75 wrote:
Carlton green wrote:A wise man would keep away from both ‘skin heads’ and ‘football fans’, of course that’s prejudice because individuals might be perfectly fine, but historically that’s not always been the case.

Rob might choose to explain for himself. I hope that my interpretation helps somebody and isn’t viewed as unfairly judgemental, but rather as someone’s reaction to try to simplify complex choices related to personal safety and risk reduction.


I can't be a wise man then. I worked in an office full of football fans for many years and I didn't keep away from them.

Pete you're being deliberately obtuse and I think you know what he means
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I cycle therefore I am.

GranvilleThomas
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Location: Caerphilly

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby GranvilleThomas » 26 Jul 2019, 5:25pm

Yes I can see by the postings here that we obviously need to compile some kind of a list of 'type’s' that should be avoided and obviously banned from cycle tracks or just society in general.

Perhaps a bit of ethnic cleansing need to take place to remove people we think are not worthy to exist, you must remember ADOLPH HITLER surely (yes I am aware of Godwin's law, so don't bother) I must admit I know a few football fans and they seem OK to me mind you.

So anyway I will start the list off and please feel free to add any further suggestion, oh and by the way I am old enough to remember 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish signs' - nothing has changed really has it, just a thin veneer of respectability?

So Here is the definitive list of people to watch out for and be banned from cycle tracks:

Number 1 - 'Teenagers from the local council estate' - all just waiting to mug you.

Number 2 - 'Black people' as they obviously all carry knives.

Number 3 - 'Gypsy's' they will all steal anything not bolted down, every last one of them.

Number 4 - 'Disabled people with walking sticks' - I heard they all kill kittens with their stick's - terrible people!

Number 5 - Football fans - scum of the earth, all looking for a fight.

Number 6 - Rugby fans - I caught one peeing on a slug in the lane once, when Wales lost - so they are all scum obviously.

Number 7 - Labour voters - They must like Corbyn, who is a commie - no pinko's on my cycle track boy!

Right so that's the first 7 done for you guys and galls, but I don't want to have all the fun, lest see if we can get a top ten at least - so over to you :D

poetd
Posts: 92
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby poetd » 26 Jul 2019, 5:30pm

Godwins though.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby pete75 » 26 Jul 2019, 5:37pm

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Carlton green wrote:A wise man would keep away from both ‘skin heads’ and ‘football fans’, of course that’s prejudice because individuals might be perfectly fine, but historically that’s not always been the case.

Rob might choose to explain for himself. I hope that my interpretation helps somebody and isn’t viewed as unfairly judgemental, but rather as someone’s reaction to try to simplify complex choices related to personal safety and risk reduction.


I can't be a wise man then. I worked in an office full of football fans for many years and I didn't keep away from them.

Pete you're being deliberately obtuse and I think you know what he means

I know what he's trying to say and I also think he's wrong hence my comment. Hardly any football fans are violent thugs yet he's saying you should keep away from them all. It's a ridiculous thing to say. You might just as well say stay away from Oxford undergraduates because of the sometimes violent antics of Bullingdon club members. As for skin heads - that was a short lived phenomena of the late sixties and early seventies. They'll all be grandfathers by now. If he means avoid people with sort hair/shaved heads - well that seems to be half the under 65 male population of the UK these days.
This whole thread seem to be driven by paranoia and those of Carlton green particularly so.

reohn2
Posts: 36712
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2019, 5:44pm

pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
I can't be a wise man then. I worked in an office full of football fans for many years and I didn't keep away from them.

Pete you're being deliberately obtuse and I think you know what he means

I know what he's trying to say and I also think he's wrong hence my comment. Hardly any football fans are violent thugs yet he's saying you should keep away from them all. It's a ridiculous thing to say. You might just as well say stay away from Oxford undergraduates because of the sometimes violent antics of Bullingdon club members. As for skin heads - that was a short lived phenomena of the late sixties and early seventies. They'll all be grandfathers by now. If he means avoid people with sort hair/shaved heads - well that seems to be half the under 65 male population of the UK these days.
This whole thread seem to be driven by paranoia and those of Carlton green particularly so.

I haven't read the whole thread,faced on path with a group of loud football fans in their team's regalia,I'd be on my metal,though if it were after the match I probably ask if they're won.

Edit:- gangs of youths can be anything from totally benign to outright menacing.There's a gang of youths probably 16 to 18year olds I pass regularly on a cyclepath in a rough area who are usually smoking dope.
On first encountering them I have to say I felt vulnerable but said "alright lads" they replied " aye not bad",we're now on nodding "how do" terms.
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I cycle therefore I am.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby pete75 » 26 Jul 2019, 6:04pm

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Pete you're being deliberately obtuse and I think you know what he means

I know what he's trying to say and I also think he's wrong hence my comment. Hardly any football fans are violent thugs yet he's saying you should keep away from them all. It's a ridiculous thing to say. You might just as well say stay away from Oxford undergraduates because of the sometimes violent antics of Bullingdon club members. As for skin heads - that was a short lived phenomena of the late sixties and early seventies. They'll all be grandfathers by now. If he means avoid people with sort hair/shaved heads - well that seems to be half the under 65 male population of the UK these days.
This whole thread seem to be driven by paranoia and those of Carlton green particularly so.

I haven't read the whole thread,faced on path with a group of loud football fans in their team's regalia,I'd be on my metal,though if it were after the match I probably ask if they're won.

Edit:- gangs of youths can be anything from totally benign to outright menacing.There's a gang of youths probably 16 to 18year olds I pass regularly on a cyclepath in a rough area who are usually smoking dope.
On first encountering them I have to say I felt vulnerable but said "alright lads" they replied " aye not bad",we're now on nodding "how do" terms.


That's not how the violent ones, the so called firms, dress.

Stradageek
Posts: 630
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby Stradageek » 26 Jul 2019, 6:04pm

+1 Edit:- gangs of youths can be anything from totally benign to outright menacing,there's a gang of youths probably 16 to 18year olds I pass regularly on a cyclepath in a rough area.On first encountering them I have to say I felt vulnerable but said "alright lads" they replied " aye not bad",we're now on nodding "how do" terms.

Excellent!

My plea is to start from here, assume the world is a better place and maybe it will get there.

Yes it carries a very slight risk - but hey, what is life without a challenge/risk or two?

My wife found herself trapped on a cycle patch between a fallen tree blocking the way and a large gang of threatening looking youths. So she asked them if they could help and they all got together to move the tree off the path so that she could cycle through :D

gbnz
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Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby gbnz » 26 Jul 2019, 6:05pm

MOARspeed wrote:Part of my commute takes me onto a national cycle route, I use it to avoid the main road which is basically two lanes up a long hill, with drivers so obsessed with racing each other that they'll pass cyclists stupidly close.

I've had no problem for around 3 weeks, cycling 4 days, driving on Wednesdays (shopping day), but twice now on that section i've encountered a 6-7 strong group of rough looking lads on tatty mountain bikes with the saddles dropped and tipped backwards, in their mid to late teens, first time they shouted some random **** and that was it, 2nd time next day the same but at least two of them tried to catch up to me, I'm not incredibly fit any more and I walk the final section which avoids a nasty roundabout. The whole of this cycle route is away from the road, it runs through the backs of houses and through wooded areas.

I may never see them again, but having these lads trying to catch up to me has got me spooked, it's the end of my commute home and i'm not fast enough at that stage to out run trouble, equally I consider the road route to be lethal (I even drive an additional 2 miles to avoid it in my car).

What's the best approach here?


Develop as an adult and attain a reasonable level of self confidence :lol: . What are you frightened of :?: I struggle to avoid that memory of the female manager, who was frightened by the fact I'd worn striped socks to work - found myself taken aside on a semi formal basis to discuss the issue :lol:

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Gangs of youths on national cycle route.....

Postby pete75 » 26 Jul 2019, 6:13pm

It's just a thought but perhaps those worried about danger from a group of youths shouldn't go cycling on the roads . You're vastly more likely to be killed or seriously injured by a respectable adult driving a motor vehicle. Compared to that threat all others are insignificant.