TV personality driving ban reduction

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Bonefishblues
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Aug 2019, 12:32pm

Stradageek wrote:The simple solution, much practiced in Nordic countries would be "Ok, we'll let you do the series and then the ban will come into effect"

In other words, nice try sunshine but we've still got you!

This. Sensible. Expedient. Likely impossible without a change to the law, I expect.

Bonefishblues
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Aug 2019, 12:33pm

Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:What are "average speed limits"?


I thought a speed limit was a limit not to be exceeded, not that e.g. in a 30 limit you can do 40 as long as your average is 30 or lower. Is he talking about average speed cameras? - which to me is just another type of speed camera; so a 70 mph speed limit road with average speed cameras still means legally you must never go above 70 mph.

Or have I missed some new type of speed limit?

Ian


That's the theory but in practice they mean drivers mustn't average more than 78 mph

So no such thing as an "average speed limit" but just a type of speed camera - which shows that Coogan's comments to the court show that he does not even understand the concept of a "speed limit". He said "I try to observe the average speed limits that have come in".

Ian

Oh I think he's a bit of an expert these days, or at least his lawyer is!

cotswolds
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby cotswolds » 14 Aug 2019, 12:36pm

Mike Sales wrote:
cotswolds wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:I often see on-screen pieces in which the actor or presenter is ostensibly driving on open public roads. These do look very convincing. I really doubt that they are faked.

They're often done with the car being towed on a low trailer for the dialogue bits, intercut with shots of the car actually being driven where you can't see them actually talking. Very easy to do, cheap and perfectly safe.


Are you sure? Do you have special knowledge of this? When I wrote to the BBC about one which was shot on a crowded street they did not use this justification.
Shots of drivers chatting to camera are commonplace. Why would they go to the length of using a trailer when a different setup would work equally well?
I am usually convinced. I shall have to watch more closely in future.


Don't know that it's always done that way, but I know the technique is common. Depending on the scale of the production, there's probably a director, cameraman and sound man with a load of gear who need a vehicle, which is probably going to be a 4x4. Adding a trailer behind is a trivial extra. The give away tends to be if a car comes up behind, it looks lower than it should. I saw a shot of it being done once, the presenters were perfectly safe, but the cameraman was in the back of a Range Rover with the tailgate up, presumably breaking seat belt laws.

Psamathe
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Psamathe » 14 Aug 2019, 12:37pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:What are "average speed limits"?


I thought a speed limit was a limit not to be exceeded, not that e.g. in a 30 limit you can do 40 as long as your average is 30 or lower. Is he talking about average speed cameras? - which to me is just another type of speed camera; so a 70 mph speed limit road with average speed cameras still means legally you must never go above 70 mph.

Or have I missed some new type of speed limit?

Ian


That's the theory but in practice they mean drivers mustn't average more than 78 mph

I loaded a Tom Tom app the other day which, among other things has real-time speed limit info on it and was amazed to see that it also gives you a real-time average speed through average speed monitored areas. Remarkable.

But presumably if you drive at 120 mph through most of a monitored part of a 70 mph road but slow down to 10 mph for the last bit to get your average speed limit down you have still broken the law, just avoided being caught by the average speed detector cameras.

Ian

Bonefishblues
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Aug 2019, 12:43pm

We have a common understanding of average, yes. But as we both know these zones are filled with people respecting the average speed as an absolute.

As can be readily seen in the M6 smart motorway works there's still the opportunity to catch people speeding via camera vans, one of which is almost invariably stationed somewhere along the length.

Mike Sales
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Aug 2019, 1:12pm

cotswolds wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:I often see on-screen pieces in which the actor or presenter is ostensibly driving on open public roads. These do look very convincing. I really doubt that they are faked.

They're often done with the car being towed on a low trailer for the dialogue bits, intercut with shots of the car actually being driven where you can't see them actually talking. Very easy to do, cheap and perfectly safe.


If these methods delivered an acceptable illusion of driving, then Coogan's argument, that a longer ban would mean that his travelogue would have to be cancelled, fails.
The whole show could be faked, and if this is routine, then no problem arises.
Perhaps his evidence was lies, and that should attract punishment.

ianrobo
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby ianrobo » 14 Aug 2019, 4:43pm

skyhawk wrote:I haven't read it all... but

I thought the police offered an alternative, training or one day courses


Is it not only for speeding ? Did one 4 years ago and changed the way I drive

Psamathe
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Psamathe » 14 Aug 2019, 5:35pm

ianrobo wrote:
skyhawk wrote:I haven't read it all... but

I thought the police offered an alternative, training or one day courses


Is it not only for speeding ? Did one 4 years ago and changed the way I drive

Coogan did one of the courses only 2 months ago. Effective in his case?
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/aug/13/alan-partridge-saves-steve-coogan-from-lengthy-driving-ban wrote:The court heard the actor had a history of speeding offences and had attended a drivers awareness course just two months ago.


Ian

pete75
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby pete75 » 14 Aug 2019, 6:13pm

Psamathe wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
pete75 wrote:
That's the theory but in practice they mean drivers mustn't average more than 78 mph

I loaded a Tom Tom app the other day which, among other things has real-time speed limit info on it and was amazed to see that it also gives you a real-time average speed through average speed monitored areas. Remarkable.

But presumably if you drive at 120 mph through most of a monitored part of a 70 mph road but slow down to 10 mph for the last bit to get your average speed limit down you have still broken the law, just avoided being caught by the average speed detector cameras.

Ian


You're not wrong but you'd be highly unlikely to be caught because there won't be any other speed enforcement in an area covered by average speed cameras. Perhaps there should be from time to time though.

pete75
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby pete75 » 14 Aug 2019, 6:19pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:What are "average speed limits"?


I thought a speed limit was a limit not to be exceeded, not that e.g. in a 30 limit you can do 40 as long as your average is 30 or lower. Is he talking about average speed cameras? - which to me is just another type of speed camera; so a 70 mph speed limit road with average speed cameras still means legally you must never go above 70 mph.

Or have I missed some new type of speed limit?

Ian


That's the theory but in practice they mean drivers mustn't average more than 78 mph

I loaded a Tom Tom app the other day which, among other things has real-time speed limit info on it and was amazed to see that it also gives you a real-time average speed through average speed monitored areas. Remarkable.


I had Tomtom on a mobile phone years ago when you needed a seperate Bluetooth GPS for navigation and it had that feature way back then. Must have been about 2006.

Bonefishblues
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Aug 2019, 6:29pm

pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I loaded a Tom Tom app the other day which, among other things has real-time speed limit info on it and was amazed to see that it also gives you a real-time average speed through average speed monitored areas. Remarkable.

But presumably if you drive at 120 mph through most of a monitored part of a 70 mph road but slow down to 10 mph for the last bit to get your average speed limit down you have still broken the law, just avoided being caught by the average speed detector cameras.

Ian


You're not wrong but you'd be highly unlikely to be caught because there won't be any other speed enforcement in an area covered by average speed cameras. Perhaps there should be from time to time though.

As I said earlier I regularly see camera vans in the M6 smart motorway roadworks North of Birmingham which are also average speed controlled, at least ostensibly.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 14 Aug 2019, 7:51pm

Hi,
Mmmmm "couldn't remember who was driving the car" :?
You and me would go to jail for less.
Total slime ball.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

Mike Sales
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Aug 2019, 7:57pm

Mike Sales wrote:
cotswolds wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:I often see on-screen pieces in which the actor or presenter is ostensibly driving on open public roads. These do look very convincing. I really doubt that they are faked.

They're often done with the car being towed on a low trailer for the dialogue bits, intercut with shots of the car actually being driven where you can't see them actually talking. Very easy to do, cheap and perfectly safe.


If these methods delivered an acceptable illusion of driving, then Coogan's argument, that a longer ban would mean that his travelogue would have to be cancelled, fails.
The whole show could be faked, and if this is routine, then no problem arises.
Perhaps his evidence was lies, and that should attract punishment.


Coogan told the court that the camera shots could not be faked: “You have cameras mounted on the bonnet then you have other shots where you have a camera mounted on a separate car filming the person in the car driving.”

Bonefishblues
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Aug 2019, 8:10pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
cotswolds wrote:They're often done with the car being towed on a low trailer for the dialogue bits, intercut with shots of the car actually being driven where you can't see them actually talking. Very easy to do, cheap and perfectly safe.


If these methods delivered an acceptable illusion of driving, then Coogan's argument, that a longer ban would mean that his travelogue would have to be cancelled, fails.
The whole show could be faked, and if this is routine, then no problem arises.
Perhaps his evidence was lies, and that should attract punishment.


Coogan told the court that the camera shots could not be faked: “You have cameras mounted on the bonnet then you have other shots where you have a camera mounted on a separate car filming the person in the car driving.”

"Coogan explained, when questioned by the Magistrates, that Partridge was filmed in a documentary 'fly on the wall' style which would not be able to be replicated using other methods, especially as the idea of the eponymous character touring by car was central to the new production."

... and I'm not a lawyer. No mileage in perjury here, it's simply fair comment and opinion.

Mike Sales
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Re: TV personality driving ban reduction

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Aug 2019, 8:26pm

Bonefishblues wrote:"Coogan explained, when questioned by the Magistrates, that Partridge was filmed in a documentary 'fly on the wall' style which would not be able to be replicated using other methods, especially as the idea of the eponymous character touring by car was central to the new production."

... and I'm not a lawyer. No mileage in perjury here, it's simply fair comment and opinion.


My original point was that this sort of filming is surely more distracting and disturbing to concentration than using a hands- free phone. Are the roads cleared of the public?