Parking on the pavement to be banned!

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awavey
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby awavey » 9 Sep 2019, 10:20pm

its not uncommon for people round where I live to park the car such that they are parked so far over on the pavement the wheels still on the road are almost touching the kerb, I dont think they get it at all, Ive argued with some of them till Im blue in the face they think they can park anywhere. plus we get DPD vans etc just dumped on the pavements overnight which Im sure breaks another parking law. There is a road adjacent to mine where parking restrictions apply Monday-Friday, and cars will get ticketed if left there, so its mostly clear, but at the weekend the pavement just becomes a car park again and the people whose cars these are then get really a****y with you walking on the pavement getting in their way !?!

so I feel this is a step in the right direction, even if it will probably be a cold day in hell before the government ever bans it, but maybe some councils will start to take note and do something and the slow drip drip of change will fix it eventually

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Redvee
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby Redvee » 10 Sep 2019, 1:35am

I was chatting to a Parking Enforcement Officer a few weeks back as he put a ticket on a car that was completely on the pavement avoiding the double yellow lines and he said if there were no yellow lines he wouldn't have been able to ticket the car.
I had an encounter with a taxi over the weekend, I was walking along the pavement near the kurb and was aware of a car behind me on the road so stopped for a few seconds then carried on and stopped again and turned around and the taxi had on wheel on the pavement obviously wanting to park on the pavement so I spoke to the driver and pointed out that pavements are for pedestrians and roads are for cars and he replied that he can park wherever he wants cause he works opposite to where we were chatting :shock:

pwa
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby pwa » 10 Sep 2019, 7:22am

I can think of streets where some degree of pavement parking happens, and some where it doesn't. This street is one where it rarely happens.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5973415 ... 6?hl=en-GB

It is a busy road and a bus route, with quite wide pavements, so you might imagine it would have some wheels on the path. But I hardly ever see it. It is rare in my own village too. I remember one car obstructing a pavement last week, and it stood out because it was unusual to see that. So I'm not convinced this problem is getting worse. But nor do I think it is getting better.

In this region the streets where pavements are completely obstructed tend to be a specific type. They are often on old council estates and are unusually narrow residential streets with little moving traffic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5750057 ... 6?hl=en-GB

In these specific circumstances I tolerate the pavement parking because I see no practical alternative. And because the very low volume of moving traffic means walking in the road is safe. On this specific type of street I feel the best solution would be to remove the pavement / road distinction and have a shared space with pedestrian priority.

Streets adjacent to that one, with a bit more width, see a lot less pavement parking. So I think the general feeling in that particular neighbourhood must be that pavement parking is a last resort rather than a default.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5747022 ... 6?hl=en-GB

eileithyia
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby eileithyia » 10 Sep 2019, 8:50am

mjr wrote:
eileithyia wrote:Our road is narrow, with typical turn of the century terraces on oneside and footpath access to properties on the otherside.... parking on properties is non-existent. There's a kind of unwritten acknowledgment, one side parks part on footpath, otherside parks fully on road..... without this there would be no access for larger vehicles / emergency vehicles to properties.

No, without that, half of you would have to park elsewhere like you ought to or risk getting ticketed for obstruction!


Ha ha ha I liked to know where......... nearest place to park would be the local supermarket about 2 miles away (not a problem for me but not sure some of my disabled neighbours would agree), where there is 3 hour parking restrictions (1.5hours when there is footie on), as none of the streets are designed for offroad car parking locally. We do have a couple of green fields locally where we are fighting to prevent them being built on (more cars to be parked on the already over crowded roads) guess instead we could tarmac those over and have car parking instead..... and the local feral youf would have a field day....
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

kwackers
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby kwackers » 10 Sep 2019, 9:31am

eileithyia wrote:
mjr wrote:No, without that, half of you would have to park elsewhere like you ought to or risk getting ticketed for obstruction!


Ha ha ha I liked to know where......... nearest place to park would be the local supermarket about 2 miles away (not a problem for me but not sure some of my disabled neighbours would agree), where there is 3 hour parking restrictions (1.5hours when there is footie on), as none of the streets are designed for offroad car parking locally. We do have a couple of green fields locally where we are fighting to prevent them being built on (more cars to be parked on the already over crowded roads) guess instead we could tarmac those over and have car parking instead..... and the local feral youf would have a field day....

If it's absolutely necessary to park on a footpath then I'd argue the footpath shouldn't be there - what purpose does it serve?

It's fairly straightforward imo.
Bit like pavement cycling, start of with it defaulting to illegal and give the councils the option to make it legal where necessary.

The problem is that it's become entrenched in driver behaviour.
Out for a run on Sunday the number of cars parked on pavements whilst their drives remained empty was unbelievable - it was almost the default.

Then there are houses where the council has provided parking cutouts and folk parked half in the cutout and half on the pavement - how on earth does that work?
People who believe they can get around double yellows by parking fully on the pavement, folk parked on junctions with half the car on the pavement, folk parked on verges, folk parked on pavements on wide roads.
It's an endless list but one thing was obvious and that's with very few exceptions almost none of them had a good reason to be on the pavement.

pwa
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby pwa » 10 Sep 2019, 9:40am

kwackers wrote:If it's absolutely necessary to park on a footpath then I'd argue the footpath shouldn't be there - what purpose does it serve?


Just picking out that one point from what you said, that is my own feeling about what should happen on very narrow residential streets where there simply isn't room for parking other than on what is now the pavement. And I am talking about extreme cases here, not your average cul-de-sac. But it will have to be accompanied by the designation of those shared spaces as pedestrian priority. And it is not a solution for busy streets.

kwackers
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby kwackers » 10 Sep 2019, 9:43am

pwa wrote:
kwackers wrote:If it's absolutely necessary to park on a footpath then I'd argue the footpath shouldn't be there - what purpose does it serve?


Just picking out that one point from what you said, that is my own feeling about what should happen on very narrow residential streets where there simply isn't room for parking other than on what is now the pavement. And I am talking about extreme cases here, not your average cul-de-sac. But it will have to be accompanied by the designation of those shared spaces as pedestrian priority. And it is not a solution for busy streets.

Yep, I was actually being serious.

It's shared space in all but name, so rip up the pavement, make the speed limit 10mph and call it shared space.
I'm perfectly happy with that.

pwa
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby pwa » 10 Sep 2019, 9:49am

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:
kwackers wrote:If it's absolutely necessary to park on a footpath then I'd argue the footpath shouldn't be there - what purpose does it serve?


Just picking out that one point from what you said, that is my own feeling about what should happen on very narrow residential streets where there simply isn't room for parking other than on what is now the pavement. And I am talking about extreme cases here, not your average cul-de-sac. But it will have to be accompanied by the designation of those shared spaces as pedestrian priority. And it is not a solution for busy streets.

Yep, I was actually being serious.

It's shared space in all but name, so rip up the pavement, make the speed limit 10mph and call it shared space.
I'm perfectly happy with that.

What we are considering is a modification, but some modern streets already have this solution.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5878366 ... 6?hl=en-GB

And it does kind of work in those limited circumstances. Cul-de-sac so no through traffic, low speed traffic movement.

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mjr
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby mjr » 10 Sep 2019, 9:53am

kwackers wrote:It's fairly straightforward imo.
Bit like pavement cycling, start of with it defaulting to illegal and give the councils the option to make it legal where necessary.

The problem with that is that - in government orthodox view - cyclists are scum and so pavements are only reallocated where it's undeniable or serves a politicsl aim (such as diverting cycling budgets to other things), but cars are kings so pavement parking would be allowed over a very wide area ignoring objections of scum walkers and of course "wobblies and gimps".

Then there are houses where the council has provided parking cutouts and folk parked half in the cutout and half on the pavement - how on earth does that work?

Even motorists no longer trust motorists to drive inside the through lanes and not drift into parking cutouts while playing on their phones.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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peetee
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby peetee » 10 Sep 2019, 9:56pm

I used to live in a suburban road where there was a high degree of respect amongst neighbours and everyone parked outside their own home. I spoke to someone who still lives there and they said that now it has all gone to pot. About two years ago a new family moved in to a house with no driveway. They have 4 vehicles, two of which were vans that return earlier than most in the road and have the pick of the parking - sometimes straddling two spaces. Their attitude is "deal with it".
It seems to me that adequate parking is not high on the list of priorities for many purchasing a house and the number of selfish 'I'm alright Jack' vehicle owners is increasing. My experiences as a parent of twins that were walked to their child-minder in a double buggy back this up. At times it was bad then but I am not sure I could even do the same journey once now.
Last edited by peetee on 11 Sep 2019, 10:45am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mick F
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby Mick F » 11 Sep 2019, 7:10am

mattheus wrote:
Mick F wrote:Dog and me had difficulty passing, so I folded the driver's door mirror in to get past.


How big is your dog??
I had to walk sideways. Dog is a young border collie and he was on a lead. It was a squeeze to get us - as a connected couple - through the gap.
Mick F. Cornwall

mattheus
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby mattheus » 11 Sep 2019, 8:52am

peetee wrote:I used to live in a suburban road where there was a high degree of respect amongst neighbours and everyone parked outside their own home. I spoke to someone who still lives their and they said that now it has all gone to pot. About two years ago a new family moved in to a house with no driveway. They have 4 vehicles, two of which were vans that return earlier than most in the road and have the pick of the parking - sometimes straddling two spaces. Their attitude is "deal with it".
It seems to me that adequate parking is not high on the list of priorities for many purchasing a house and the number of selfish 'I'm alright Jack' vehicle owners is increasing. My experiences as a parent of twins that were walked to their child-minder in a double buggy back this up. At times it was bad then but I am not sure I could even do the same journey once now.


This is possibly the root cause of the problem.

I can only see it getting better if people face penalties for their anti-social behaviour; perhaps banning pavement parking will achieve this? It seems feasible, especially with non-trivial punishments.


(I'm quite disappointed that MickF does not have a dog as big as a double-buggy.)
Last edited by mattheus on 11 Sep 2019, 9:15am, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Sales
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby Mike Sales » 11 Sep 2019, 9:02am

Pavement parking is just one of the effects of there being too many cars, too much encouragement of excessive motor use.
Like many of the other ill effects much of the pain is felt everybody, not just those who use cars. Indeed, felt more by non-users.
It is difficult to see how our present car use could go on without them being able to be stored on the public highway, including the pavement.
Sometimes I am tempted to see the Aberystwth experiment as a solution. Doing away with parking regulation entirely might focus minds on a real solution.

Hailed as the trickiest place to park in Britain, Aberystwyth has now dumped its parking attendants, leading to 'carmageddon’.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8642177/Aberystwyth-The-town-without-traffic-wardens.html

kwackers
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby kwackers » 11 Sep 2019, 9:12am

Mike Sales wrote:Sometimes I am tempted to see the Aberystwth experiment as a solution. Doing away with parking regulation entirely might focus minds on a real solution.

Unfortunately historical lessons are never learnt and need regularly repeating ad-nauseum.

It's a simple truth that people don't appreciate what they have and yearn for something they see as being better because in their minds eye they can imagine the same thing without what they see as the problems and it's all good.

There's probably nothing humans do that this doesn't apply to, from parking, through politics and up to world affairs.

eileithyia
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Re: Parking on the pavement to be banned!

Postby eileithyia » 11 Sep 2019, 9:13am

I guess for most people actually being able to afford a property either rented or purchased is their over-riding priority before considering car parking, the properties around my area are hardly fancy quarter million properties, we are talking 2-3 bedroom industrial revolution terraces where people are getting by on shift work, builders, shop workers, groundsmen,nursery workers, young families and those that are clearly still living in the same property they came to as young marrieds.
I am sure 1900's town planners built properties for the town's local heavy industry that no longer exists requiring people to work further and further away from home.

I guess in an ideal world future planning would have 3 storey properties with vehilce parking underneath, or a an area at the end of the street of some sort of stacked parking..... But as quoted in the film 'Fisherman's Friends' town planners hardly anticipated the way lives would so dramatically change.
Please do not get me wrong.... I am not an advocate of parking on pavements such that they are blocked..... but locally it is dealt with as previously explained..... one side partially on pavement and oneside fully on the road....
I am luckily the only property to have vehicle access and off road parking..... and my dropped kerb is used by the one lady who requires it, who then walks down the road anyway because the next dropped kerb she can use is at the bottom of the street where it joins a main road..... so cars parked on pavements is not a problem for her... lack of other facilities are...
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells