People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
mercalia
Posts: 11542
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mercalia » 12 Sep 2019, 1:25pm

if its as bad as your describe, well you could try contacting your local councillor. If the route is in the control of the council they could instigate a bye law about speed. It seems sooner or later there will be an accident.

if there is canal I would always ride on the side furthest away so the over taker risks a bath
Last edited by mercalia on 12 Sep 2019, 1:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14063
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2019, 1:26pm

Vorpal wrote:Two things about the practice in the US,though... 1) many shared use facilities in the US have signs asking pedestrians and joggers to keep to the left, and cyclists to keep to the right, except when overtaking 2) Cyclists still need to go at a reasonable speed, and slow down for vulnerable users.

Whereas we have those (well, ride on the left and walk on the right) in the highway code - which almost no-one ever seems to read unless they're soon to take a driving test.

I never heard folks do this in the UK. As eileithyia said, 'on your left' on a club run means a hazard on the left.

Until watching the BC videos, I'd only heard "on your right" used by clubbers to mean they were passing on the right. Easily misheard as "Anya Wright" though, leading to responses like "no, I'm Vorpal" or whatever. :)

But then, all of these non-standard calls are vulnerable to misinterpretation: I've known "car up" to mean car ahead, behind or up the hill; and "clear" used to mean the road is clear or simply that the rider has cleared the junction. It's safest simply to ignore calls and judge it for yourself.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14063
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2019, 1:27pm

mercalia wrote:if its as bad as your describe, well you could try contacting your local councillor. If the route is in the control of the council they could instigate a bye law about speed. It seems sooner or later there will be an accident

Collision, not accident, please, but surely the correct response would be to make alternative routes more attractive, not to screw speeding fines out of riders?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

mercalia
Posts: 11542
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mercalia » 12 Sep 2019, 1:32pm

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:if its as bad as your describe, well you could try contacting your local councillor. If the route is in the control of the council they could instigate a bye law about speed. It seems sooner or later there will be an accident

Collision, not accident, please, but surely the correct response would be to make alternative routes more attractive, not to screw speeding fines out of riders?



whats the difference between collision and accident? It seems that the op is suffering from yob-cyclists like that guy who headbutted the ped in London. You shouldnt be cycling at speed on a narrow canal path if there are others present. who do they think they are, that others should get out of their way? They need to be stopped.

De Sisti
Posts: 746
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 6:03pm

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby De Sisti » 12 Sep 2019, 1:37pm

reohn2 wrote:Uunfortunately it's a growing problem in a get out of my way selfish society.I would take the middle of the path in an ffort to slow these morons down and as guard against going in the drink,I would also recommend a rear view mirror to keep an eye out for errant idiots such as these.

I have done exactly that when I saw three roadies bearing down on me on a canal path (near Slimbridge)
after they had bullied a couple of walkers to give way. I took the middle line and perposely slowed down,
forcing the roadies to cut their speed to almost a standstill. Cue the efffing and jeffing followed by personal
insults from them. :roll:

mercalia
Posts: 11542
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mercalia » 12 Sep 2019, 1:42pm

the whole "on yer left, on yer right" is a load of bunkum . These days until you get very close you cant be sure the target person dont have earbud and listening to something. or maybe engrossed in their mobiles. I have often in London passed by peds in particular in a world of their own. Furhtermore the wind in your ears can make it hard to hear some one calling out. So my view is the council should enact bylaws eg 5mph
Last edited by mercalia on 12 Sep 2019, 1:44pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14063
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2019, 1:44pm

mercalia wrote:
mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:if its as bad as your describe, well you could try contacting your local councillor. If the route is in the control of the council they could instigate a bye law about speed. It seems sooner or later there will be an accident

Collision, not accident, please, but surely the correct response would be to make alternative routes more attractive, not to screw speeding fines out of riders?


whats the difference between collision and accident? It seems that the op is suffering from yob-cyclists like that guy who headbutted the ped in London. You shouldnt be cycling at speed on a narrow canal path if there are others present. who do they think they are, that others should get out of their way? They need to be stopped.

A collision seems like a reasonably-forseeable outcome of the reckless behaviour and I think accident should be reserved for very improbable things.

Also, there are already laws against reckless riding and colliding with other towpath users, so a speed limit bye law would only punish law-abiding riders and those idiots would continue anyway. Enforce the current laws before introducing new ones that would probably mostly punish riders just getting a bit of a move on on clear good-visibility sections of path (because the sections with good visibility would be the easiest places to measure and stop speeders). Also, what would you set the speed limit to? Getting hit by a cyclist overtaking at 12mph could still dump you into the canal.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

mercalia
Posts: 11542
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mercalia » 12 Sep 2019, 1:47pm

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:
mjr wrote:Collision, not accident, please, but surely the correct response would be to make alternative routes more attractive, not to screw speeding fines out of riders?


whats the difference between collision and accident? It seems that the op is suffering from yob-cyclists like that guy who headbutted the ped in London. You shouldnt be cycling at speed on a narrow canal path if there are others present. who do they think they are, that others should get out of their way? They need to be stopped.

A collision seems like a reasonably-forseeable outcome of the reckless behaviour and I think accident should be reserved for very improbable things.

Also, there are already laws against reckless riding and colliding with other towpath users, so a speed limit bye law would only punish law-abiding riders and those idiots would continue anyway. Enforce the current laws before introducing new ones that would probably mostly punish riders just getting a bit of a move on on clear good-visibility sections of path (because the sections with good visibility would be the easiest places to measure and stop speeders). Also, what would you set the speed limit to? Getting hit by a cyclist overtaking at 12mph could still dump you into the canal.


well local bylaws would be on the spot fines, like those dropping litter, the laws you mention are police matters?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14063
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2019, 1:55pm

mercalia wrote:So my view is the council should enact bylaws eg 5mph

So, effectively ban cycling, then. Great idea(!) :roll:

A more fundamental problem is that cyclists require more width at low speeds because they need more wobble room (aka deviation), so such a byelaw would make the problem of insufficient width even worse... which I think means that the byelaw could not be introduced legally for that reason and so it should fail if ever challenged in court.

(Source: "Above 7 mph, the amount of deviation, i.e. the additional width needed when moving, is 0.2 metres. Below this, deviation increases – at 3 mph deviation is typically 0.8 metres" - Local Transport Note 2/08 Cycle Infrastructure Design)

So instead of wasting council money on making useless byelaws and losing court cases while deterring cycling, maybe try to think up something which might actually work?
Last edited by mjr on 12 Sep 2019, 1:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14063
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2019, 1:57pm

mercalia wrote:well local bylaws would be on the spot fines, like those dropping litter, the laws you mention are police matters?

Police can also issue on-the-spot fines for some things and I don't think any power currently exists to allow councils to fine people for speeding, unlike the laws which give councils power to deal with litter, bad car parking, antisocial behaviour and so on.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

reohn2
Posts: 36442
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby reohn2 » 12 Sep 2019, 2:13pm

De Sisti wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Uunfortunately it's a growing problem in a get out of my way selfish society.I would take the middle of the path in an ffort to slow these morons down and as guard against going in the drink,I would also recommend a rear view mirror to keep an eye out for errant idiots such as these.

I have done exactly that when I saw three roadies bearing down on me on a canal path (near Slimbridge)
after they had bullied a couple of walkers to give way. I took the middle line and perposely slowed down,
forcing the roadies to cut their speed to almost a standstill. Cue the efffing and jeffing followed by personal
insults from them. :roll:

And I do enjoy wishing them to ' have nice day' :D
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2894
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Sep 2019, 2:23pm

Vorpal wrote:It could be coming from the US. Most states don't require bells on bikes, there, and when I was living there (20 years ago), it was common practice for cyclists on shared use facilities and during organised events to say to joggers, pedestrians, or slower cyclists, 'on your left/right' or 'passing on your left/right', and this was generally understood to mean that the faster cyclist(s) would overtake on the stated side. This was not done to plough through, but to inform the other user(s). That allowed them to restrain dogs, move over, or simply not be startled by a passing cyclist on a quiet path.

Two things about the practice in the US,though... 1) many shared use facilities in the US have signs asking pedestrians and joggers to keep to the left, and cyclists to keep to the right, except when overtaking 2) Cyclists still need to go at a reasonable speed, and slow down for vulnerable users.

That sounds like a fairly reasonable way to do it (though as I've said, I do think "passing on your left/right" is much less ambiguous, as well as more polite, than simply "on your left/right").

I never heard folks do this in the UK. As eileithyia said, 'on your left' on a club run means a hazard on the left.

It gets used both ways in UK. But I think you've picked up one of the reasons why this is: there's a difference between a call within the club or group, which is to alert following riders to a hazard (such as "hole" or "gravel"), and a call to other road users, who need to be alerted to the presence of the cyclists and can't (shouldn't) be expected to know anyone else's jargon.

mercalia
Posts: 11542
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mercalia » 12 Sep 2019, 2:39pm

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:So my view is the council should enact bylaws eg 5mph

So, effectively ban cycling, then. Great idea(!) :roll:

A more fundamental problem is that cyclists require more width at low speeds because they need more wobble room (aka deviation), so such a byelaw would make the problem of insufficient width even worse... which I think means that the byelaw could not be introduced legally for that reason and so it should fail if ever challenged in court.

(Source: "Above 7 mph, the amount of deviation, i.e. the additional width needed when moving, is 0.2 metres. Below this, deviation increases – at 3 mph deviation is typically 0.8 metres" - Local Transport Note 2/08 Cycle Infrastructure Design)

So instead of wasting council money on making useless byelaws and losing court cases while deterring cycling, maybe try to think up something which might actually work?


3mph is just about walking :roll: I bet these cycle-yobs are going considerably faster. 5-6mph is about right. In fact if its a ped thats being overtaken probably should stop if going in opposite directions to let the ped go by, otherwise slow down considerably 'til the other person recognises your prescence and they accomodate. Maybe you will have to follow their tail until the track widens out, or maybe they stop and move to the side to give you room to pass. So a speed law could do the trick, since its the contact zone thats needs dealing with. If the width of the track is so small that wont allow wobble then it is questionable whether there should be 2 abreast cyclists? so the wobble data you mention would fail in court. This sort of thing happens to me a lot in London with m/cylists over taking from behind in traffic leaving very little distance - had I moved a little to the left or right I would have been pulped. I dont see why I should applaud their speed
Last edited by mercalia on 12 Sep 2019, 2:57pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 1923
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Tigerbiten » 12 Sep 2019, 2:43pm

I tend to use "I'm low on your left/right" as needed.
Being on a recumbent probably make me harder to spot if I'm not being looked down upon ........ :D

User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 1923
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Tigerbiten » 12 Sep 2019, 2:51pm

mercalia wrote:3mph is just about walking :roll: I bet these cycle-yobs are going considerably faster. 5-6mph is about right.

So are you wanting to fine any runner who goes faster than 5-6 mph as well.
If not, why not ??

10 mph is 1 mile every 6 minutes or 4.3 hours for a marathon.
This is over your 5-6 mph limit but well within an average runners speed range.

Luck ........... :D