People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

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mercalia
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mercalia » 12 Sep 2019, 3:03pm

Tigerbiten wrote:
mercalia wrote:3mph is just about walking :roll: I bet these cycle-yobs are going considerably faster. 5-6mph is about right.

So are you wanting to fine any runner who goes faster than 5-6 mph as well.
If not, why not ??

10 mph is 1 mile every 6 minutes or 4.3 hours for a marathon.
This is over your 5-6 mph limit but well within an average runners speed range.

Luck ........... :D


its about wobble room and the width of the track. if the track is wide go as fast as you like. if its narrow then not. The ops case is the path is not really wide enough for safe 2 abreast.( Some ) Laws generally are not about catching offenders but offenders who have caused trouble or come to the attention of the authorities. eg I see lots of people cycle on the pavement in Streatham ( there are byelaws about it signed out side Lidls) but no one stops them, but if there was an accident I bet all their misdemeanours would be counted

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mjr
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2019, 4:16pm

mercalia wrote:In fact if its a ped thats being overtaken probably should stop if going in opposite directions to let the ped go by, otherwise slow down considerably 'til the other person recognises your prescence and they accomodate. Maybe you will have to follow their tail until the track widens out, or maybe they stop and move to the side to give you room to pass. So a speed law could do the trick, since its the contact zone thats needs dealing with.

I don't see how that means "a speed law could do the trick". The problem is the reckless overtake, not the speed it is done at. I don't care if the person shoving me into the canal is doing 5mph or 7mph - I don't want to go in the canal, plus I want any police to be focused on catching the shovers, not wasting a load of time on minor speeding offences.

mercalia wrote:If the width of the track is so small that wont allow wobble then it is questionable whether there should be 2 abreast cyclists? so the wobble data you mention would fail in court.

Again, I don't see how that conclusion follows: by imposing such a low speed limit, the council or whatever would be effectively turning some sections wide enough for two into only wide enough for one, plus increasing the risk that a lawbreaker collides with a law-abiding rider, which means the low limit would be detrimental to public safety, which means the limit could not be introduced on the grounds that it would improve public safety.

mercalia wrote:This sort of thing happens to me a lot in London with m/cylists over taking from behind in traffic leaving very little distance - had I moved a little to the left or right I would have been pulped. I dont see why I should applaud their speed

No-one is saying you should. I don't see how that's the same sort of thing at all, unless the motorcyclists are on the towpaths (which would not entirely surprise me, sadly). Please don't take your anger at motorcyclists out on cyclists.
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Postboxer
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Postboxer » 12 Sep 2019, 6:05pm

Maybe there could be a clearly presented code of conduct, perhaps with fines for people not following it. If there were some large clear signs on the entrance points to the shared space, people would know what was required of them and maybe think twice about their actions.

DaveReading
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby DaveReading » 12 Sep 2019, 6:46pm

Tigerbiten wrote:10 mph is 1 mile every 6 minutes or 4.3 hours for a marathon.

You might want to invest in some new batteries for your calculator. :)

In my running days, I could only sustain 6-minute miling for a short period, but I could run a marathon in three and a half hours.

cycle tramp
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby cycle tramp » 12 Sep 2019, 7:56pm

reohn2 wrote:Uunfortunately it's a growing problem in a get out of my way selfish society.I would take the middle of the path in an ffort to slow these morons down and as guard against going in the drink,I would also recommend a rear view mirror to keep an eye out for errant idiots such as these.


+1 Absolutely! Also be prepared to slow down, stop and speak to any dogs and their owners, I've found that it displaces any bad feelings the dog walkers may be fostering after encountering any racing cyclists who have barged their way past them :-)

charliepolecat
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby charliepolecat » 12 Sep 2019, 8:09pm

In the US it was common practice for cyclists on shared use facilities and during organised events to say to joggers, pedestrians, or slower cyclists, 'on your left/right' or 'passing on your left/right',

"On your left" is pretty common practice throughout the US - with some variations.

Two things about the practice in the US,though... 1) many shared use facilities in the US have signs asking pedestrians and joggers to keep to the left, and cyclists to keep to the right, except when overtaking


I've never seen signs like that. Everyone - walkers, runners, cyclists - understands the need to stay to the right. What you will sometimes see is a sign saying cycle no more than 10 MPH when passing pedestrians - and which everyone ignores.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby The utility cyclist » 12 Sep 2019, 8:15pm

My view is you shouldn't be calling out at all, in exactly the same way when using a bell for passing pedestrians, you should overtake in exactly the same manner you would wish to be overtaken by a motorist, when it's safe/opportune and without the person you are overtaking having to deviate whatsoever. it's either safe to pass (not at junctions right!) and you've given enough space for eventualities or you haven't!

Earlier this year I took an online friend who was visiting from Australia with his prospective SiL on a circular route that formed part of an organised rides route, we were overtaken at a decent speed whilst we were passing parked cars in a village, 'on your right' was shouted out, I didn't budge, no way was I compromising my safety for the sake of some idiots who thought it was a safe move to overtake whilst others were passing parked cars on a narrowish village road.

So what happened, they came past a bit too close with hardly any wriggle room and gave a bit of a look because we hadn't budged (I told my compatriots to not to move in), I was just thinking 'do one muppets', read the road ahead and just ease off until we pass the parked cars, easy peasy ... or not :roll: They don't know us, we don't know you so give more space coming past particularly in the circumstances of potential door openings and child/adult walking out from behind the cars not to mention potholes/surface issues.

This may be form for half a century and more but IMO it's just selfish nonsense that ignores basic courtesy and safety, it seems to flag once you've said it you can come past however you like and expect others to cede/get out your way.
Last edited by The utility cyclist on 14 Sep 2019, 11:19am, edited 1 time in total.

charliepolecat
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby charliepolecat » 12 Sep 2019, 8:33pm

My view is you shouldn't be calling out at all,


It's a misnomer to believe that calling out is merely to inform other cyclists on the road/trail that you are coming, it is in fact to tell the other cyclist to 'hold their line' so as not to veer into you.

cycle tramp
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby cycle tramp » 12 Sep 2019, 8:48pm

charliepolecat wrote:
My view is you shouldn't be calling out at all,


It's a misnomer to believe that calling out is merely to inform other cyclists on the road/trail that you are coming, it is in fact to tell the other cyclist to 'hold their line' so as not to veer into you.


...and what happens when the road conditions mean that I am unable 'to hold my line' ?

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Paulatic
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Paulatic » 12 Sep 2019, 8:54pm

For 25 years I’ve been shouting 'on your right' or left when off roading. On single track you get stuck behind someone slower and when you see your opportunity to get past I give the warning. It stops the rider in front, often unaware of your presence, getting a fright as you pass them which could break their concentration and give them a fright.
For 25 years I’ve been hearing shouts of " on your right" or left coming from behind me. I know I don’t have to do anything apart from continuing on my course and a rider behind me has seen an opportunity to pass me and doesn’t want to shock me.
I believe the above use to be perfectly acceptable and an aid to safety. The problems,possibly, arrive because some riders become nervous with closeness, indeed I’ve witnessed some slowing or veering to the side when passing. I certainly didn’t want them to do that.
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charliepolecat
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby charliepolecat » 12 Sep 2019, 9:04pm

I give the warning. It stops the rider in front, often unaware of your presence, getting a fright as you pass them which could break their concentration and give them a fright.


There is a broad measure of opinion born from experience that actually giving out the warning does quite the opposite. Have you ever noticed when you do call out to less experienced riders that their natural response is to turn their heads to look around thereby causing them to swerve into your riding line? The correct and safe riding style however always requires of the rider to ride in a safe and courteous manner conditional upon the conditions and always to be expecting the unexpected.

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Paulatic
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Paulatic » 12 Sep 2019, 9:27pm

charliepolecat wrote:
I give the warning. It stops the rider in front, often unaware of your presence, getting a fright as you pass them which could break their concentration and give them a fright.


There is a broad measure of opinion born from experience that actually giving out the warning does quite the opposite. Have you ever noticed when you do call out to less experienced riders that their natural response is to turn their heads to look around thereby causing them to swerve into your riding line? The correct and safe riding style however always requires of the rider to ride in a safe and courteous manner conditional upon the conditions and always to be expecting the unexpected.


Surely that may well be true to the first time? After that how is one to identify a slow learner?
Being courteous, is that ringing your bell and letting them guess where you are coming from? I do agree though if you don’t ride expecting the unexpected then you’ll certainly come a cropper.
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Sep 2019, 10:11pm

It doesn't have to be singletrack. A few days ago I was riding my fully laden tourer (last day of a camping trip) up a steep hill on a country lane. The lane was fairly narrow but wide enough for two cars to pass. Ahead of me was a couple walking with backpacks and hiking gear (I think the Cotswold Way coincides with this lane for stretch so they might have been doing that). Because it was a quiet country road with decent visibility, they were walking side by side, chatting, and also veering a bit (perhaps the gradient was a bit much for them!). Effectively they were taking up the whole road, especially when you consider the 'dynamic envelope' of their poles and packs. And they hadn't seen me (head same direction) or heard me (over their conversation) so I called out 'Excuse me' and they looked round, saw me, parted for a second to let me through and then resumed their chat.

If I hadn't called out, they wouldn't have been aware of my presence till I was right behind them, thus giving them a surprise and possibly forcing me to stop.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby Tigerbiten » 13 Sep 2019, 3:12am

The utility cyclist wrote:My view is you shouldn't be calling out at all, in exactly the same way when using a bell for passing pedestrians .........

I like to give and receive advanced warning that something different may happen.

If it's very quite and I'm cycling along minding my own business and not checking my mirrors when suddenly something 3'-4' taller than me suddenly appears in the corner of my vision from behind with no warning then I tend to jump because of the sudden shock.
If I had a bit of warning they were there then I'd stay in my very relaxed state.

As for giving a warning, I do it again because a recumbent trike is so different from a bike.
On any road/path due to where the wheels are, I ride about 18" wider than a bike.
So even with the safest overtake, I've got that much less wobble room.
So I think giving a warning that something different is coming passed makes it that much safer.

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Re: People shouting 'left' 'right' etc on a cylce path whilst approaching from behind

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Sep 2019, 5:13am

Bmblbzzz wrote:It doesn't have to be singletrack. A few days ago I was riding my fully laden tourer (last day of a camping trip) up a steep hill on a country lane. The lane was fairly narrow but wide enough for two cars to pass. Ahead of me was a couple walking with backpacks and hiking gear (I think the Cotswold Way coincides with this lane for stretch so they might have been doing that). Because it was a quiet country road with decent visibility, they were walking side by side, chatting, and also veering a bit (perhaps the gradient was a bit much for them!). Effectively they were taking up the whole road, especially when you consider the 'dynamic envelope' of their poles and packs. And they hadn't seen me (head same direction) or heard me (over their conversation) so I called out 'Excuse me' and they looked round, saw me, parted for a second to let me through
..

You went through between them? I hate that, feels really dangerous
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