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Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 2:33pm
by kwackers
I've requested the name and number of the officer that spoke to me at the scene
(the one that emailed me was another I didn't speak to - her name was Kate Middleton no less!)
I feel the very least I should do is email them and complain about his "keep to the kerb" advice as well as querying why they'd decided not to prosecute without seeing any footage.

My "insurance" is basically the third party cover offered by my house insurance.
So I've had a quick look at the bike, buckled front wheel and damaged seat seems about it (front wheel has a Son dynamo hub, should I claim for the whole wheel or include swapping out the hub? Probably not a lot different in price unless I do it myself).
I've also a few cuts and grazes and I've just had a pleasant few hours kip in the warm conservatory and awoke feeling almost normal with just a few 'ouches' when I reach out so no big claim there.

So overall the total cost is likely to be in the few hundreds.
Should I tot it up and email the insurers directly? Or run it through a solicitor?
My main aim is to get someone to tell her she was at fault (and hopefully cover the actual cost of repairing the damage) and if the police won't do it then her insurers might.
She was absolutely adamant at the scene it was my fault and she'd done nothing wrong.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 3:19pm
by Pete Owens
There seems to be a worrying trend for the police to use non-use of cycle lanes as an excuse for victim blaming (in the same way they do for non-wearing of plastic hats). See also this blog post from Greater Manchester: http://www.happycyclist.org/?p=2336

Another reason why we should call for the removal of cycle lanes (incidentally, I did request that that particular one should be removed several years ago).

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 3:20pm
by Vorpal
Obviously, it's your time and energy, and pursuing any kind of claim or prosecution will likely be time consuming and frustrating.

But besides your costs, the NHS should, in theory reclaim their costs against the driver's insurance. And your employer should claim against your time lost.

If it were me, I would pursue it, with regard to both the policing, and recovering as much of the cost as possible, if only to make the point. But not everyone would have the energy and/or stubbornness to do so.

Personally, I would engage a solicitor. It may be difficult to engage someone on a no-win, no-fee basis. They will not normally take on low-value cases.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 3:25pm
by Oldjohnw
Does your house insurance included legal protection? Are you a CUK member?

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
by mjr
Pete Owens wrote:Another reason why we should call for the removal of cycle lanes (incidentally, I did request that that particular one should be removed several years ago).

And what was the response to your request?

Don't you feel that calling for the removal of even adequate cycle lanes reduces the impact of any requests you make for removal of crap ones?

As I mentioned earlier, the cycle lane is not present at the location of this collision. Kwackers could not be in it as it does not exist there. It's much less relevant than the centre striping which the motorist seemed unwilling to enter.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 3:54pm
by slowster
kwackers wrote:I feel the very least I should do is email them and complain about his "keep to the kerb" advice as well as querying why they'd decided not to prosecute without seeing any footage.

Your email would most likely be ignored. The only way you are going to change their approach and attitude is if pressure is brought to bear on them from above, i.e. by a more senior officer telling them they are wrong, and that in turn is only likely to happen if pressure is brought to bear on the Force/the PCC/Chief Constable by social media and/or the local press.

kwackers wrote:My "insurance" is basically the third party cover offered by my house insurance.

She argued at the time you were at fault, and may do so as this matter progresses. You will need to notify your house insurers if she maintains that line, e.g. if you receive notification from her/her solicitors/her insurers that they are claiming against you for damage to her car, then you must send it/a copy straight away to your insurers, so that they can defend you and (in what I think would be the very unlikely case that you were to lose the case) pay any award made against you. Late notification to your insurers may prejudice their ability to defend the case and/or increase the costs, which in turn can allow them to refuse your claim.

Similarly, if when you seek compensation you are told that they consider there was contributory negligence on your part (no matter how small, e.g. 5%), then you also must notify your insurer, because the allegation of contributory negligence means that not only are they maintaining that your claim should be reduced by X%, but also that you are liable for that same percentage of the damage to her car, i.e. it is an indication that they are very likely to claim against you, and again your insurers will need to know that ASAP.

If there is a claim against you and your insurers get involved/take over, you will need to be clear with them that you reject the allegation of blame or contributory negligence. This is important because you do not want them to agree a settlement with her insurers based on you being to blame (whether it's 100% or 5%), because that would also correspondingly limit your ability to claim against her. In other words, you want them not to agree any settlement without telling and discussing with you first.

kwackers wrote:(front wheel has a Son dynamo hub, should I claim for the whole wheel or include swapping out the hub? Probably not a lot different in price unless I do it myself).

Get a quote from a LBS for the rims, spokes (if applicable) and the cost of removing the hub from the damaged wheel and building it in a new wheel. If after getting the compensation you decide in the end to DIY, that would be up to you. The other side of that coin is that if you are a poor wheelbuilder and spokes start breaking on the new wheel, then that would be your lookout, not her insurers after they have paid you 'in full and final settlement'. Probably a good idea to check the hub is OK now before building it into a new wheel - can you check that it's still generating current?

kwackers wrote:I've also a few cuts and grazes and I've just had a pleasant few hours kip in the warm conservatory and awoke feeling almost normal with just a few 'ouches' when I reach out so no big claim there.

Take photographs. It sounds like your injuries are sufficiently minor that you won't need more detailed medical evidence, and insurers/solicitors probably have a fairly standard simple scale or rule of thumb for payments for that level of injury. That said, it is often best not to settle such claims too quickly, in case it turns out that the injuries are worse than originally thought and may take longer to recover from (again, if you've accepted a payment in full and final settlement, you will not be able to re-open the claim later if you find that you've got an injury that is still causing you pain and/or might require an operation). So wait until you are certain you are fully recovered before settling.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 4:05pm
by Pete Owens
slowster wrote:With regard to the criminal law aspect, that was awful driving and IMO should result in prosecution for driving with due care and attention, and I would have expected it to be a slam dunk case with the video evidence.

I would say dangerous rather than careless.

Careless would be if the video showed Kwackers within the cycle lane - the driver started to overtake closely at the point of the first approach (ie simply stayed in lane) - failed to judge the speed - and moved in when the filter lane marking not realising that they had not fully overtaken.

In this case the driver slows at the first approach - and then makes a deliberate dangerous manoeuvre. Actually, I think it is likely (though intent is difficult to prove) that the red mist descended when they first encountered a cyclist appearing to deliberately obstruct the carriageway by riding outside the inadequate cycle lane and decided to use their car to force Kwackers into the gutter.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 4:07pm
by mjr
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=128508 and the linked thirdcrank topic viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49627 are probably essential reading now. :(

It should be straightforwards but I regard civil liability cases as rather like handling a bear. It shouldn't be much trouble if done well, but if you do it wrong, the bear may eat you - and refusing to attempt it may not avoid being bitten either. :(

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 4:08pm
by kwackers
In other amusing news.
Just had an automated telephone survey from the hospital.

Q1. How likely am I to recommend Warrington A&E to friends and family?


Now there's a loaded question if ever there was one.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 4:41pm
by NUKe
If you feel the Police have treated you unfairly, you could take it up with your local Police and crime commissioner
https://www.police.uk/cheshire/pcc/

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 7:01pm
by Spinners
Not pleasant to watch.

Get well soon mate.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 8:25pm
by cycle tramp
kwackers wrote:Opinions and suggestions welcomed.

I do wonder if I should move my pannier to the other side because I'm pretty sure in both cases they push the rear of the bike around steering me into the car and giving me no chance to get away.



Sorry to hear & see your collision. I hope you get well soon. I think we all are disappointed with the response by the police and given the nature of the incident, it is my hope that cycling UK becomes involved...
...in regards to the pannier, if i'm riding with just one, I'll pop it on the right hand side. I also use a sticky out plastic lollipop thing and a set of wide bars with a mirror sticking out the end. I tend to find that if you can make your bike look like something that will damage cars in a collision people tend to give you more space. It doesn't always work which is why my next bike will have a damn great wooden box on the back :-)

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 8:45pm
by roubaixtuesday
Shocking. Get well soon and best of luck with any attempts to hold driver or police to account for their actions (or lack of, in plods case)

Re: And another off.

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 11:47pm
by hemo
Surely it is a reportable accident not only did the driver have Kwackers off his bike but a hit and run as well.
Police should have at least cautioned the driver for driving with undue care and attention though guess it depends on the force and whether they can be bothered, they at least should be able to give insurer details to make a claim against the driver direct via her insurers.

My incident lat night wasn't as bad and the driver stopped and was very apologetic, no real injuries on my part though I did tell him he should report the accident as he caused the collision. Later in the evening I phoned the guy and we settled for my bike damage, so at least I'm not out of pocket. If I had been hurt or he had driven off then I would have got the police involved as there were witnesses who came forward at the scene givng me their contact details if needed.

Re: And another off.

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 12:40am
by Marcus Aurelius
That was a truly shocking bit of driving. Google ‘ninja rocks’. Whenever I’m riding with a single pannier, I put it on the near side, for exactly this reason. There’s no way the driver should be close enough for it to matter, but with brainless idiots, like the driver in this example, around, it’s all about what does happen, not what should happen. What a massive tool that driver was, absolutely unbelievable.