Pothole crash death - a Total And Utter Disgrace

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.

reohn2
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby reohn2 » 25 Sep 2019, 10:21am

Agreed,if the council could fix the pothole after the death of this poor woman they could certainly have afforded it before.
I know it won't bring her back but the council IMO should be sued for gross negligence.
Her poor family are in my thoughts at this tragic time.
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby Phil Fouracre » 25 Sep 2019, 12:43pm

Very sad! But, every pothole repaired? Never going to happen :-( surely a bit of realism needed here - the pothole was how big? I may sound heartless, but, how about looking where you’re going?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

brooksby
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby brooksby » 25 Sep 2019, 1:25pm

...

Alison Doyle, 47, was nearing the end of a 50-mile ride with her cycling club when she lost control after hitting the hole, which was at least 15in long and 2.5in deep.

The parish councillor and nurse, who had survived breast cancer in 2016, suffered serious injuries and died at the scene.

An inquest heard yesterday that there had been at least four complaints in a year about the poor quality of Bold Lane in Aughton, Lancashire, where the accident happened.

...

In response to the tragedy on August 19 last year, engineers from Lancashire County Council visited the scene and filled in the pothole that same day. Preston Coroner’s Court was told that the road was inspected every three months for defects. The last examination, in June, had not shown any potholes worthy of repair – those deeper than 1.5in. However, by September – a month after the accident – 17 defects or potholes had been identified.

Richard Borrett, representing Mrs Doyle’s family, questioned whether it was ‘surprising’ that such a large hole had opened in a small space of time. David Vincent, a highways inspector, accepted it was unusual but admitted that potholes were ‘not an exact science’ and one could have occurred.


Pretty awful. Is all road maintenance now just fixing-it-after-the-fact?

Pete Owens
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby Pete Owens » 25 Sep 2019, 4:29pm

They can only fix potholes that they know exist. Their defence is that they inspect the road regularly and the pothole wasn't there last time they looked.

This is why it is important to report potholes via fillthathole. That way there is a public record - ideally with a photograph - that the council has been told about it.

gbnz
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby gbnz » 25 Sep 2019, 5:16pm

My God, a Daily Mail reader on the CTC forum :shock: Disgusting

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mjr
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby mjr » 25 Sep 2019, 5:26pm

I think this is the latest update to https://www.qlocal.co.uk/ormskirk/news_ ... 033012.htm see also https://tonyrobertson.mycouncillor.org. ... e-aughton/

Pete Owens wrote:They can only fix potholes that they know exist. Their defence is that they inspect the road regularly and the pothole wasn't there last time they looked.

This is why it is important to report potholes via fillthathole. That way there is a public record - ideally with a photograph - that the council has been told about it.

I agree completely, although I prefer fixmystreet because I find it easier to use and it covers other defects.

Also, we must also get council "Transport Asset Management Plans" changed. At the moment, the plans I've seen prioritise A/B roads so that they get 85% of the maintenance in some areas. Quieter roads that are popular cycle routes (such as NW Regional Route 91 in this case) are maintained to lower standards - in one case, they won't resurface until 30% of the surface has failed. What's worse, popular cycle routes compete for the remaining 15% of repairs with things like residential cul-de-sacs harmed by persistent pavement parking - and residents of those roads complain in numbers as the kerbs crumble and the turning tyres scour holes into the roads.

This is a systemic failure. C roads like Bold Lane in Aughton are generally only inspected every 3 months - U roads are inspected annually, RBs every 5 years! Whereas A/B roads are inspected monthly. The system is designed to expose the most vulnerable road users to the worst maintenance regime.

There are two obvious ways to fix this: rebalance the maintenance regime to prioritise cycle routes, or make more A/B roads safe enough for cycling. I don't mind which, but people will keep being hurt or killed unnecessarily until government is made to fix its system.
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pwa
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby pwa » 25 Sep 2019, 5:43pm

Where I do most of my cycling there are lots of lanes that are halfway to being farm tracks, so I treat them as such. But the road on which this woman lost her life is not that sort of lane. Not if the Google pics from 2009 are anything to go by.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5416519 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Because that road seems generally okay, you could be caught off guard by a solitary pot hole. It would be less expected than on a ropey lane that is in a poor condition for its entire length.

I have to say that around here we find that if we report a bad hole it does tend to get fixed (not always very well) within a matter of days.

reohn2
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby reohn2 » 25 Sep 2019, 6:10pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:Very sad! But, every pothole repaired? Never going to happen :-( surely a bit of realism needed here - the pothole was how big? I may sound heartless, but, how about looking where you’re going?

Considering we don't know if the pothole was unavoidable or if her attention was distracted or if the hole was filled with water or a combination of these things and maybe others,yes it does sound heartless
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Postboxer
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby Postboxer » 25 Sep 2019, 6:52pm

Surely the council are destroying evidence by filling it in that day, did anyone go back and undo the repair to see how bad the pothole was? Perhaps the relevant section of road could be closed until a full inspection has taken place and photos etc taken. It seems a flawed system, repairing them only once they become dangerous, only inspecting them sporadically with no foresight as to how bad it may be by the time of the next inspection.

Farrina
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby Farrina » 25 Sep 2019, 7:59pm

Pete Owens wrote:They can only fix potholes that they know exist. Their defence is that they inspect the road regularly and the pothole wasn't there last time they looked.


If only it were that simple ...

Whilst I live in Liverpool, I undertake a lot of my cycling in South Lancashire (including the locality where this fatality occurred).

In attempting to avoid traffic (in common I suspect with many on here) i tend to frequent the quieter often single track roads which are often in a poor state of repair. Potholes on such roads are not considered a defect unless the are over 40mm deep Bizarrely the footpath defect limit is only 25mm before action is taken...

https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/roads-par ... n-pothole/

Of course part of the problem will be a lack of financial resources.

toontra
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby toontra » 25 Sep 2019, 8:53pm

Farrina wrote:Potholes on such roads are not considered a defect unless the are over 40mm deep Bizarrely the footpath defect limit is only 25mm before action is taken...



I expect part of the reasoning is that roads are used by motorised vehicles with pneumatic tyres and suspension so larger defects are acceptable. Cyclists are usually an afterthought.

Valbrona
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby Valbrona » 26 Sep 2019, 5:10pm

Pete Owens wrote:They can only fix potholes that they know exist.


Agreed.

But they could also be giving road users roads that are less likely to develop huge holes in the first place and operate more thorough resurfacing regimes meaning we don't get to the huge pot hole stage. Big potholes don't appear overnight.
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mattsccm
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Re: Pothole crash death - a Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby mattsccm » 26 Sep 2019, 6:18pm

Of course, as with everything, budgets are limited and we all have our own priorities. I'd rather the money went on hospitals, police etc than roads as we can all slow down. In fact if poor roads reduced speeds then it would be great in my opinion. Minor roads can deal with holes as traffic is much less and often more suited, eg 4wd and such like. Drivers tend to be local and can cope as well.
Not saying smooth tarmac isn't nice but its not the be all of everything.

ossie
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Re: Total And Utter Disgrace

Postby ossie » 26 Sep 2019, 8:05pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:Very sad! I may sound heartless, but, how about looking where you’re going?


How about dappled light from trees, pot holes filled with water in wet weather, other incidents /physical obstructions that take away your view from the road.

We can't all be head down watching the tarmac immediately in front of us as you seemingly think .

As you said heartless and the sort of knee jerk comment you'd see in a tabloid comments section.