Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

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Mick F
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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Mick F » 24 Nov 2019, 10:09am

There are short poles - bollards? - on the pavements in Plymouth about groin height.
When the pavements are busy, or if you don't look, you could get a very nasty injury. :shock:

Nearly walked into one quite recently near the station.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.37635 ... 312!8i6656

This one is right where you walk when crossing the road! :shock:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.36960 ... 312!8i6656

There are others.
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Syd
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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Syd » 24 Nov 2019, 2:08pm

Read the first half dozen or so posts and then skipped to the end so apologies if I’ve missed anything.

OP the post is a static object, which has been there for some time, which you didn’t see and collided with. I’m afraid I see it as you having to accept fault.

Around 12 weeks ago I collided with a vehicle stopped in the middle of the road, fracturing my pelvis in three places. I was unsighted by a double parked vehicle and the vehicle I hit failed to move away from a green traffic signal as the driver was distracted by his phone. Those don’t take away from the fact I have to duty to look out for such things and I accepted fault. My 3rd party insurance paid for damage to the car.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Postboxer » 24 Nov 2019, 2:30pm

Yes but cars are expected to be in the road and drivers are expected to look out for them. It seems unreasonable for cyclists to have to put up with unlit, unhighlighted, almost camouflaged obstructions in the middle of cycle paths. Especially when said sign is for the adjacent road and nothing to do with the cycle path.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby reohn2 » 24 Nov 2019, 2:34pm

I tend to agree with Syd.
The pole is static and has been there for some time,the duty lies with the cyclist to observe the way ahead and take necessary action as and when.
The thing is,if the OP,or anyone else FTM,hadn't hit the post would they be complaining about it being there?
I strongly suspect not.
I also sympathise with those who complain that it shouldn't be there at all,but unless they've made official complaints on the grounds of safety(and I accept some people may have done) then their complaints on the thread are without foundation.

Confession:-I see many bad street furniture designs that could be improved on but have to admit to myself that if people are using the roads safely their journeys will be a save one.
The world isn't without risk of some kind or another that's a fact.

EDITED for typos and clarity
Last edited by reohn2 on 24 Nov 2019, 4:21pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Syd
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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Syd » 24 Nov 2019, 2:42pm

Postboxer wrote:Yes but cars are expected to be in the road and drivers are expected to look out for them. It seems unreasonable for cyclists to have to put up with unlit, unhighlighted, almost camouflaged obstructions in the middle of cycle paths. Especially when said sign is for the adjacent road and nothing to do with the cycle path.

It is unreasonable but, unfortunately not unexpected or unusual.

I’ve came across numerous cycle paths / shared use paths littered with similar obstacles. Its not just here in the UK as I’ve encountered them whilst cycling in France and Spain.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby reohn2 » 24 Nov 2019, 2:43pm

Postboxer wrote:Yes but cars are expected to be in the road and drivers are expected to look out for them. It seems unreasonable for cyclists to have to put up with unlit, unhighlighted, almost camouflaged obstructions in the middle of cycle paths. Especially when said sign is for the adjacent road and nothing to do with the cycle path.

1) the pole wasn't in the middle of the cyclepath.i strongly suspect it was placed where it was to be in the eyeline of drivers and not too close to the edge of the road so bus wing mirrors didn't come in contact with it.
2)cyclists travel much slower than cars and so have longer reaction times and if alert with a good headlight should be able to avoid such a collision,as in the OP
4)there are many,many unlit roads traversed daily by cars and cyclists at night with many obstacles on them,potholes debris and animals dead or alive being just a few.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Mike Sales » 24 Nov 2019, 3:27pm

Postboxer wrote:Yes but cars are expected to be in the road and drivers are expected to look out for them. It seems unreasonable for cyclists to have to put up with unlit, unhighlighted, almost camouflaged obstructions in the middle of cycle paths. Especially when said sign is for the adjacent road and nothing to do with the cycle path.


A nice solid pole in the middle of the carriageway would be a good test of observance of and an enforcement of H.C. para. 126.

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.


I notice that this advice is seldom observed and when cyclists are hit from behind, it seems that drivers are not expected to observe it.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Nov 2019, 3:54pm

Sturdy sign posts used to cause fatal accidents, look at how wayside posts are made now, they are flimsy and do little damage to chelsae tractors
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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Mike Sales » 24 Nov 2019, 3:57pm

brynpoeth wrote:Sturdy sign posts used to cause fatal accidents, look at how wayside posts are made now, they are flimsy and do little damage to chelsae tractors


Sturdy signs just stand there, inert and unmoving, how can they cause accidents?

Another problem is that there may be other objects on the road which can cause little harm to motors, but themselves will be injured, often fatally, by a driver who neglects to observe rule 126.
If we make the roads safe for those who drive like idiots, then idiot drivers is what we get.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby mjr » 24 Nov 2019, 4:04pm

Mike Sales wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Sturdy sign posts used to cause fatal accidents, look at how wayside posts are made now, they are flimsy and do little damage to chelsae tractors


Sturdy signs just stand there, inert and unmoving, how can they cause accidents?

Yes, yes, it was poor phrasing, but pretty clearly meant that it caused collisions to become fatal when they would not have otherwise been so.

Many roadside posts now are designed to collapse when struck by motor vehicles. I was particularly annoyed by one placed on a cycleway that had the manufacturer's sticker left on it, proclaiming it to be "Jerol: Crash Friendly" - it certainly was inviting crashes, placed in the middle of the cycleway. It was relocated to the verge after a few complaints.

Why is the OP's post not a "crash friendly" one anyway? Done on the cheap? It's only a cycleway - let them eat metal!?

I remain convinced that the OP's collision is shared-fault. Yes, ultimately, cyclists should slow enough to avoid an unseen obstacle, but the various standards say the post should not be there to hit either! I don't see the length of time that it's taken the highway authority to repair a cycleway defect makes it any less liable.
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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Mike Sales » 24 Nov 2019, 4:18pm

mjr wrote:
Many roadside posts now are designed to collapse when struck by motor vehicles.


And motors are designed so that they can hit things with little risk to the occupants.
Air bags, crash zones, seat belts all mean that drivers can take less care and drive faster. Insurance pays for paintwork.

Drivers have to try really hard to hurt themselves, and sometimes still manage to.
When drivers were made to use belts, the DSI rate for softer bodied road users went up. I suspect the same applies to the other "safety improvements".

seatbelts2.jpg


http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2013/03/24/the-biggest-lie/
Even the law is little deterrent to idiot driving.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 24 Nov 2019, 4:32pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby pete75 » 24 Nov 2019, 4:21pm

Mike Sales wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Sturdy sign posts used to cause fatal accidents, look at how wayside posts are made now, they are flimsy and do little damage to chelsae tractors


Sturdy signs just stand there, inert and unmoving, how can they cause accidents?



Well the OP is claiming one did. Spidsy? Sorry post I didn't see you.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Postboxer » 24 Nov 2019, 4:28pm

I've seen it said on here before that people should be able to make little mistakes that don't result in serious injury or death, putting something like a dull grey post against a dull grey background just seems to be inviting problems. The post shouldn't be in the way, if there really is no other place for it, it should either be lit or have reflectives on it or maybe even markings on the ground to warn of it's presence. Maybe take photos of it at the same time as the accident and see how visible it is, then add something reflective and see how much more distance it's visible from.

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby Mike Sales » 24 Nov 2019, 4:43pm

Postboxer wrote:I've seen it said on here before that people should be able to make little mistakes that don't result in serious injury or death, putting something like a dull grey post against a dull grey background just seems to be inviting problems. The post shouldn't be in the way, if there really is no other place for it, it should either be lit or have reflectives on it or maybe even markings on the ground to warn of it's presence. Maybe take photos of it at the same time as the accident and see how visible it is, then add something reflective and see how much more distance it's visible from.


The contrast between how roads and motors are treated as regards obstacles which may cause harm, and the way cycle paths in general and this one in particular is certainly very striking.
As has been pointed out, motors get reflectives and even lights, and are designed to be hittable in safety.
Cyclists get none of these.
I suppose the mistake was expecting similar standards!

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Re: Friendly Cambridge bike path turns into pole-wielding monster

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Nov 2019, 4:48pm

pete75 wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Sturdy sign posts used to cause fatal accidents, look at how wayside posts are made now, they are flimsy and do little damage to chelsae tractors


Sturdy signs just stand there, inert and unmoving, how can they cause accidents?



Well the OP is claiming one did. Spidsy? Sorry post I didn't see you.

Of course, mine was a feeble attempt at 'humour'/naivete, please to note the deliberate spelling error :?
SLIDSY, sorry Love I didnae see ya, is the new phrase :(
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