Two out of three?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
kwackers
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Two out of three?

Postby kwackers » 13 Dec 2019, 10:11am

Well I know how much this forum loves to discuss filtering.
So last night the unbelievable happened - I was knocked off again!

100 yards further up from the scooter near miss, coming down Renshaw St in Liverpool, stationary traffic approaching the lights. I'm filtering to the right of the queue (no oncoming traffic) when a taxi driver suddenly decides he can't be bothered waiting and starts to do a U turn.
I'm so close to him there's no chance of avoiding him and I clip the front corner of his car and am thrown into the road.

So abrasions and bruising, bit stiff, sore and managed a first class face plant so the whole left of the side of my face is abraded, bruised and swollen. Can't see properly out of that eye due to the swelling but other than that I'm fine - no internal bruising this time so no stupid amounts of pain.

Buckled front wheel on the bike but it's my cheapo folder so buttons to fix.

Passers by were brilliant, the taxi driver was really nice and very apologetic, couldn't help enough - he even went to the police station later of his own volition to report the accident and he didn't even appear to have suddenly acquired a car full of passengers!

I even had my faith in the police restored somewhat after the travesty that is Cheshire police.
They turned up at the hospital, were very sympathetic, no lecturing, took a statement, asked for the footage, took details of the bike, witnesses, driver and then went off to interview him.
Professional and tbh exactly how I think they should be - if they turn round and say there are not going to be any charges then I'd be happy with that simply because I feel like they've actually done their job.
So: Merseyside Police 10, Cheshire 0.


So some filtering info.
I'd estimate my speed to be around 10mph, I was probably only a cars length away when the taxi started to move.
I'd normally filter down the right and then stake my claim on the front place. Renshaw St at this time is stationary along it's entire length so you'd need 4 or 5 cycles (very slow cycles) of the lights to get through if you were inclined to queue (and I refer you to the first incident as to why even that's not such a good idea).

I'm not going to upload the footage just in case but they say a picture says a thousand words so here are three.
Let the debates about filtering begin. :wink:

Accident.jpg

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 13 Dec 2019, 10:20am

You should have gone more slowly and kept further away from the queuing vehicles
Filtering= overtaking?
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Mick F
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Mick F » 13 Dec 2019, 10:28am

I agree.
I'd have been further out as there doesn't seem to be anything coming your way.

No excuse for the taxi driver not looking though, so I'm not blaming you for your accident. It was his fault 100%.


............ and get well soon Kwackers.
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby kwackers » 13 Dec 2019, 10:33am

Cyril Haearn wrote:You should have gone more slowly and kept further away from the queuing vehicles
Filtering= overtaking?

Slower - would it help?

If I was travelling at walking pace and was alongside his car and he pulled out the only real consequence is a drop in impact speed but at 10mph you don't slide very far. Most of my injuries were a result of falling from 6 feet up.

Further out means I'm more likely to be in his mirror blind spot and given the speed he launched his car out of the queue I still wouldn't be able to avoid him.
Stepping through the frames of the video he can see me in his mirrors (I can see his face) for a number of seconds. No reason why he didn't see me.

Of course if I was going slower he'd have pulled out before I got there but if I'd been going faster I'd have been past before he pulled out.
Timing is everything. Slower or further out simply change the timing.

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Mick F
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Mick F » 13 Dec 2019, 10:41am

If you'd been further out, it's possible you could have had more time to avoid and swerve to the right?

Dunno really, I wasn't there at the time. Real life is very different to pictures and movies.
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby kwackers » 13 Dec 2019, 10:51am

Mick F wrote:If you'd been further out, it's possible you could have had more time to avoid and swerve to the right?

Dunno really, I wasn't there at the time. Real life is very different to pictures and movies.

Have you seen a taxi do a U turn - especially those black cabs.
Black cab drivers spend years practising U turning in traffic at high speed through tiny gaps. Another couple of meters would have given me about quarter of second.

Consider that last picture, I'm a teeny fraction of a second from clearing him and yet he still manages to move over a meter and get me.

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Mick F
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Mick F » 13 Dec 2019, 11:39am

As I said, 100% his fault.
You can't win if people don't look. Sometimes they look, but don't see.

I have problems with pedestrians in Tavistock town centre. They look - or at least appear to look - don't see, and just step out from between the parked cars. Not hit one yet, as I was looking and seeing, but I've had to slam the anchors on or swerve out of the way. You should see the expressions on their faces when it occurs to them what they'd done. :lol:
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 13 Dec 2019, 12:21pm

Taxi ‘Uees’ account for 5 of the 6 bike wrecking crashes I’ve suffered. The bloody things can ( and do ) turn on a sixpence, usually with no warning or indication. When I couriered in London, Black cab avoidance, was a really crucial skill. I ended up across the bonnet on more than one occasion. I hope you recover soon.
Last edited by Marcus Aurelius on 13 Dec 2019, 12:21pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Vorpal » 13 Dec 2019, 12:21pm

100 % taxi driver's fault.

One thing I do when I am filtering, and that has allowed me to turn a couple of similar potential incidents into near misses, is watch wheels as much as I can (amongst assessing other risks) because that is usually the first place you can see when someone is going to make a stupid move. You can also often tell on roundabouts which way someone is going by looking at their wheels. However, I have missed other hazards once or twice (not to my detriment) for wheel-watching, so it's a little hard to say that's the best approach. I think each type of hazard has to be examined according to the situation.

In the middle picture above, though, you can see the wheels already starting to turn. Would that have given you enough (a little more?) time to react and avoid it?

I'm not sure about riding further out. It does make some sense, but, it's hard to judge without knowing the area. I'd want to know how long the queue is, what the junction ahead is like, the likelihood of having to slip back into the traffic flow, soon, etc. I'm often more nervous of oncoming traffic because the relative speed is much higher.
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby mjr » 13 Dec 2019, 12:46pm

I'd ride much further out (a car door and a bit more) but I don't think it would have avoided that one. Taxi drivers are meant to be better drivers than normals but there's still much variation in it.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 13 Dec 2019, 1:27pm

mjr wrote:I'd ride much further out (a car door and a bit more) but I don't think it would have avoided that one. Taxi drivers are meant to be better drivers than normals but there's still much variation in it.


:lol: That’s one way of putting it.

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Re: Two out of three?

Postby reohn2 » 13 Dec 2019, 2:23pm

Kwackers
Sorry to here about you coming to grief again,get well soon.

Middle photo where you're level with the drivers door of the white car behind the taxi shows the the taxi's front wheels on a slight right hand lock,that would've alerted me to go wide or brake at that point.
And he should've been indicating before moving out though they seldom do :evil:


PS,I don't think the abrasions will make you look any uglier,but could add to your windswept and interesting look :shock: :lol: :wink:
Take it easy.
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kwackers
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby kwackers » 13 Dec 2019, 2:51pm

reohn2 wrote:Kwackers
Sorry to here about you coming to grief again,get well soon.

Middle photo where you're level with the drivers door of the white car behind the taxi shows the the taxi's front wheels on a slight right hand lock,that would've alerted me to go wide or brake at that point.
And he should've been indicating before moving out though they seldom do :evil:


PS,I don't think the abrasions will make you look any uglier,but could add to your windswept and interesting look :shock: :lol: :wink:
Take it easy.

Cheers R2.
It's just life I guess, I got home from the hospital to a message that a friend of mine had died suddenly yesterday, went to the docs at the beginning of the week with a cold that he couldn't shift.
Turned out he had a very aggressive leukaemia, lasted 3 days.
Puts it into perspective - not that old neither.
Him and his missus have a few shops up in Newton Stewart and had just built and moved into their own house.
Lovely couple, I feel thoroughly gutted for her especially this time of year.


If you look at the timestamp there's only 1 second between all 3 and the bottom two have the same time so max 1 second between the two. Would it have been enough? Who knows.
The video does show me swerving out of the way although I can't tell you what triggered me to do that.

I do more than enough miles to have several near misses every year and I've always appreciated that it's just a dice throw.
Often I congratulate myself on my quick thinking but often it turns out when I review any video footage that my thinking wasn't as quick as I'd thought or that I'd missed something that could have given me an earlier indication.

I don't think going wide would have helped, braking possibly might have although with only around a second could I have spotted it, reacted and brought the bike to a stop?
Guess we'll never know.

Anyway, I need a new car mines reaching the end of its natural. Couple more of these and I won't need to dip into my savings. :lol:

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Re: Two out of three?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 13 Dec 2019, 3:03pm

Yes heal well.
Sorry to see it happen again.
As rural hick cyclist (that occasionally ventures into big cities) I admire your tenacity.
And dedication.

Take it easy.

slowster
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Re: Two out of three?

Postby slowster » 13 Dec 2019, 3:05pm

As already stated, it's completely the taxi driver's fault.

Neverthless, I look at the photographs and the first thought that comes to mind is that I simply would not want to be in that position on the road (well over into the opposite side of the road) overtaking a long queue of stationary vehicles at night-time, and presumably at rush hour.

Evidently the oncoming traffic is a good distance away, so not an immediate threat, but it looks to me as if that could easily change in a very short time frame, i.e. the stationary vehicles start to move before you can get back to the inside, and you are then stuck in a very exposed and dangerous situation if oncoming traffic approaches.

Many years ago I used to ride to work along an unlit winding country lane which was subject to the 60mph national speed limit. Although not an A or B road, it linked two conurbations and so there were cars overtaking me every minute or so (which in some ways was worse than having a continuous stream of traffic overtaking me). Most cars travelled too fast for the conditions. I count myself very lucky not to have been knocked off during those years, and now I simply would not ride along that road at night at rush hour.

That perspective of knowing that I have taken far too much risk in the past when commuting on my bike, is what makes me say that I would probably not overtake the stationary vehicles. Instead I would just slowly filter up the inside. If an inconsiderate driver was hogging the gutter and blocked my progress, I would either just put up with it and wait, or lift my bike onto the pavement to walk past the vehicle and then resume riding.

I am sorry to hear that you have had another incident in such a short period of time. Maybe it's just a statistical blip, but in your shoes I would be asking myself if I needed to ride a lot more defensively, even if the price of that was adding significantly more time to my commute.

Get well soon.