Lorry pushes car on A40

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Bonefishblues
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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Dec 2019, 11:08am

Postboxer wrote:Why would he know? Why would he be checking his mirror to see if there's anything right in front of him when he's going along a straight road, into the road he can see is clear?

Bump. Screaming of tyres. Sudden heaviness of his vehicle. Lack of responsiveness to steering inputs.

It's a truck not a tank.

AlaninWales
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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby AlaninWales » 20 Dec 2019, 2:37pm

John Holiday wrote:We recently visited the yard of a local heavy goods company and both drivers & cyclists learnt a lot about visibility or the lack of.
From the cab,it was horrifying to see how large areas around the vehicle were invisible to the drivers, despite a variety of mirrors.
Similarly it was revealing to the cyclists how "invisible " they were when near the vehicle and especially if they foolishly tried to ride up the near side of the truck.
Take care out there.

and yet:
bigjim wrote:
TrevA wrote:Imagine if you are on a bike, in front of one of these huge truck cabs! No way the driver can see you. It’s a wonder that such vehicles, with huge blind spots, are allowed on the road, especially urban roads where they mix with small cars, motorbikes, mopeds and cyclists.

Every truck I've driven in the last 20 yrs has had a huge mirror in front of the screen showing the view in front of the cab so there is no blind spot. You can actually see this mirror on the picture of this truck. It is over the passenger
side and will cover the front of the truck.

and indeed:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/01/09/trucks-do-not-have-cyclist-obscuring-blindspots-shows-truck-driver-who-cycles/
HGV driver Clive Matthews demonstrating that there's no such thing as an HGV "blind spot".

Matthews, an HGV driver who daily drives a 24-ton, three-axle MAN rigid truck – he also drives heavier articulated trucks – is skeptical about the “Exchanging Places” police demonstrations which invite cyclists to sit in HGV cabins to see the claimed “blind spots” for themselves.

On a mostly empty car park in Newcastle upon Tyne, Matthews rode my bicycle around his stationary truck as I watched from the cab, looking in his array of mirrors. Despite ducking into supposed blindspots, I could see him wherever he positioned himself, including directly in front of the cab, out of my direct vision. By using the “Cyclops” mirror looking down on the road in front of the truck, I could easily spot Matthews.

“The driver has to actually look,” Matthews told Forbes.

“[My truck is] fitted with the legal minimum of mirrors. A mirror each side, plus wide-angle mirrors, curb mirror, and a front mirror looks ahead of the truck down below to what the driver can’t see.

“The whole blind spot thing is a myth to excuse drivers who haven’t bothered to look.”
Drivers who choose to look in their mirrors will see cyclists, says HGV driver Clive Matthews

Drivers who choose to look in their mirrors will see cyclists, says HGV driver Clive Matthews Carlton Reid

And looking is the work of one second, said Matthews.

“The main three mirrors are grouped, so one glance to nearside takes half a second. [Looking in the front mirror takes another] half a second. A complete scan should take no more than a second.”

He added: “Modern lorries have a [actual] blindspot when entering roundabouts due to the amount of mirrors they’ve got. So you have to move your head back to check the way ahead is clear. If I drove on to that roundabout and had a collision and I told the police I didn’t see anything because it was in my blindspot I’m sure they wouldn’t have the same benevolent attitude towards me if I’d driven over a cyclist that I said was in my blind spot.”

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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby Vorpal » 20 Dec 2019, 2:46pm

John Holiday wrote:Similarly it was revealing to the cyclists how "invisible " they were when near the vehicle and especially if they foolishly tried to ride up the near side of the truck.

Like all those cycle lanes are designed for.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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mjr
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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby mjr » 20 Dec 2019, 5:09pm

John Holiday wrote:We recently visited the yard of a local heavy goods company and both drivers & cyclists learnt a lot about visibility or the lack of.
From the cab,it was horrifying to see how large areas around the vehicle were invisible to the drivers, despite a variety of mirrors.
Similarly it was revealing to the cyclists how "invisible " they were when near the vehicle and especially if they foolishly tried to ride up the near side of the truck.
Take care out there.

On another forum, an HGV driver claims that some trucks used in such demonstrations have been deliberately blinded to shift blame and make cyclists fearful and he's far from the only one.

If the driver really cannot see large areas around their vehicle even if they adjust the mirrors, then that vehicle (or driver?) is not roadworthy IMO and should be removed from the roads ASAP. Bluntly, you are never going to get all other road users to avoid being near their vehicle.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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rmurphy195
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Re: Crazy incident on the road , be careful !!!

Postby rmurphy195 » 20 Dec 2019, 5:51pm

Debs wrote:It doesn't look intentional, just a freak accident. Lucky no one hurt.

The car was so close and low down to front of very tall truck it was not in view of the truck driver.

Would be interesting to know how the car got to be in that side-ways predicament - i think that's where the true cause and blame should be (?)


This sort of thing is frighteningly common on motorways - it's called "wrap-around" and usually happens when a truck changes lanes without the driver seeing a car alongside - the truck's front bumper catches the car which is pushed sideways and round and "wraps arond" the front bumper of the truck, usually ending up on the opposite side of the truck to its original position, facing the wrong way. (You''ll see the technique used a lot in banger racing).

More frequently I believe when left-hand drive trucks pull out into the middle lane to overtake, hitting a car in the middle lane. The truck driver doesn't see the car 'cos its on the "wrong" side of the cab.

But the truck driver usually notices the impact, unlike the dozy person in this case (or the "driver" in the Birmingham Doctor case).
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broadway
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Re: Crazy incident on the road , be careful !!!

Postby broadway » 20 Dec 2019, 6:30pm

rmurphy195 wrote:
Debs wrote:It doesn't look intentional, just a freak accident. Lucky no one hurt.

The car was so close and low down to front of very tall truck it was not in view of the truck driver.

Would be interesting to know how the car got to be in that side-ways predicament - i think that's where the true cause and blame should be (?)


This sort of thing is frighteningly common on motorways - it's called "wrap-around" and usually happens when a truck changes lanes without the driver seeing a car alongside - the truck's front bumper catches the car which is pushed sideways and round and "wraps arond" the front bumper of the truck, usually ending up on the opposite side of the truck to its original position, facing the wrong way. (You''ll see the technique used a lot in banger racing).

More frequently I believe when left-hand drive trucks pull out into the middle lane to overtake, hitting a car in the middle lane. The truck driver doesn't see the car 'cos its on the "wrong" side of the cab.

But the truck driver usually notices the impact, unlike the dozy person in this case (or the "driver" in the Birmingham Doctor case).



The car is facing the centre reservation, it may be the car was overtaking on the nearside and tried to nip in front of the truck/

rmurphy195
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Re: Crazy incident on the road , be careful !!!

Postby rmurphy195 » 27 Dec 2019, 12:36am

broadway wrote:

The car is facing the centre reservation, it may be the car was overtaking on the nearside and tried to nip in front of the truck/


Even if it was the case the truck driver should have known a collision had occurred.

One of my scariest moments on my commute home along the M5 Oldbury viaduct was when an articulated truck overtook me - as his cab went past me, I noticed out of the corner of my eye his indicator was on and he started to move left immediately. On my left, blocking the hard shoulder, was a stretch of temporary concrete walling - and no amount of slamming on brakes would have prevented his trailer from crushing my car against the concrete, not braking would have given me wrap-around, putting my foot down would have had the same result but faster. Just then a gap appeared in the concrete so I braked and swerved through that, scattering cones galore, missing the concrete by inches, the truck missing me by inches as it moved over.

Of course I was surrounded by people anxious to help, or giving me room to get back out from the road works. Not. (Sounds familiar, eh!)
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""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

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Cunobelin
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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby Cunobelin » 27 Dec 2019, 6:13am

The other aspect I find worrying was from Ellie Goulding:

“On a side note, I can’t believe the first instinct of the other drivers who got out was to instantly start filming on their phones and shout abuse at the poor shocked driver, not even checking the other driver was okay.

"What on earth.”


She is right.... all too many times these days people film an incident rather than help to resolve it

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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby Bmblbzzz » 27 Dec 2019, 4:26pm

Cunobelin wrote:The other aspect I find worrying was from Ellie Goulding:

“On a side note, I can’t believe the first instinct of the other drivers who got out was to instantly start filming on their phones and shout abuse at the poor shocked driver, not even checking the other driver was okay.

"What on earth.”


She is right.... all too many times these days people film an incident rather than help to resolve it

True, unfortunately, but equally unfortunately this habit is far older than phones or cameras, as the word "rubbernecking" shows.

brynpoeth
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Re: Lorry pushes car on A40

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Dec 2019, 7:28am

Can anyone explain it, psychologically?
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broadway
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Re: Crazy incident on the road , be careful !!!

Postby broadway » 30 Dec 2019, 1:55pm

rmurphy195 wrote:
broadway wrote:

The car is facing the centre reservation, it may be the car was overtaking on the nearside and tried to nip in front of the truck

Even if it was the case the truck driver should have known a collision had occurred


Why, have you driven a similar truck an have experience of what it feels like in the cab?