Why wear black?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Jan 2020, 5:39pm

Cowsham wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Drivers are probably acutely aware of a military presence in said town so behave themselves better. Cycling in camouflage here would put you in a different kind of danger but no more deadly.

The other way round about a year ago I was cycling in town and almost cycled out of a T junction in front a car which was green against a green hedge coming from my right he wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong. That would have been my fault completely. Saw him at the last moment so only moved a few inches but I knew that could have been a costly mistake.

Do I understand this correctly? If a pedestrian or cyclist makes themselves 'invisible' by their attire, it's their fault, but a car is rendered 'invisible' by it's attire, it is the observers fault?


Roads are for legal cars and legal bikes ( with lights and reflectors ) pedestrians have footpaths

I wouldn't buy a green black or dark coloured car - that's my choice.

I wouldn't buy dark cycle gear -- that's my choice

I won't force my choices on other people.

The car driver can wear whatever they want but compulsory CPR training would be beneficial for suicidal cyclists and pedestrians who jump or cycle out in front of cars from side roads etc ( as I almost did )


Again the evidence doesn’t support your claims, which become more and more bizarre

.. and you have repeatedly tried to force your choices

If we believed your ridiculous claims just for the sake of discussion

If these individuals have jumped out in front of a vehicle, were suicidal or cycled out in front of a car... would they be in a position to administer CPR?

Almost as desperate as the elderly, drugged elderly , epileptics, elephants and the “ you will die” claims from previous posts

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Jan 2020, 5:43pm

Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
The car driver can wear whatever they want but compulsory CPR training would be beneficial for suicidal cyclists and pedestrians who jump or cycle out in front of cars from side roads etc ( as I almost did )


Cyclists may be thought suicidal by motorists for using the road at all, and it is ridiculous to suggest they are. They are actually doing their best not get killed by purblind drivers
.


That's what I do


Yet from
Your own evidence your attitude and expectations are different when behind the wheel... remember the uncontrolled sliding round an open corner because you were going too fast to see and lost control of the car?

Cowsham
Posts: 193
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cowsham » 10 Jan 2020, 6:34pm

Cunobelin wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Do I understand this correctly? If a pedestrian or cyclist makes themselves 'invisible' by their attire, it's their fault, but a car is rendered 'invisible' by it's attire, it is the observers fault?


Roads are for legal cars and legal bikes ( with lights and reflectors ) pedestrians have footpaths

I wouldn't buy a green black or dark coloured car - that's my choice.

I wouldn't buy dark cycle gear -- that's my choice

I won't force my choices on other people.

The car driver can wear whatever they want but compulsory CPR training would be beneficial for suicidal cyclists and pedestrians who jump or cycle out in front of cars from side roads etc ( as I almost did )


Again the evidence doesn’t support your claims, which become more and more bizarre

.. and you have repeatedly tried to force your choices

If we believed your ridiculous claims just for the sake of discussion

If these individuals have jumped out in front of a vehicle, were suicidal or cycled out in front of a car... would they be in a position to administer CPR?

Almost as desperate as the elderly, drugged elderly , epileptics, elephants and the “ you will die” claims from previous posts


It's obvious you didn't fully understand the post you are referring to.

Cowsham
Posts: 193
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cowsham » 10 Jan 2020, 6:36pm

Cunobelin wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cyclists may be thought suicidal by motorists for using the road at all, and it is ridiculous to suggest they are. They are actually doing their best not get killed by purblind drivers
.


That's what I do


Yet from
Your own evidence your attitude and expectations are different when behind the wheel... remember the uncontrolled sliding round an open corner because you were going too fast to see and lost control of the car?


Remember the illegal cyclist?
No I don't remember the uncontrolled sliding
You are misquoting again -- Varpol ?

Mike Sales
Posts: 4174
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 10 Jan 2020, 6:45pm

Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
The car driver can wear whatever they want but compulsory CPR training would be beneficial for suicidal cyclists and pedestrians who jump or cycle out in front of cars from side roads etc ( as I almost did )


Cyclists may be thought suicidal by motorists for using the road at all, and it is ridiculous to suggest they are. They are actually doing their best not get killed by purblind drivers
.


That's what I do


I once saw a cyclist, in daylight, who was clearly doing his best not to get hit by an errant motor.
He was riding on the pavement, with helmet, hiviz and a strobe.
I wonder if he was quite as insistent as you that his get up should be worn by every non-suicidal cyclist?

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Jan 2020, 6:52pm

Cowsham wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
That's what I do


Yet from
Your own evidence your attitude and expectations are different when behind the wheel... remember the uncontrolled sliding round an open corner because you were going too fast to see and lost control of the car?


Remember the illegal cyclist?
No I don't remember the uncontrolled sliding
You are misquoting again -- Varpol ?


So you don't remember your own posts... convenient

Cowsham
Posts: 193
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cowsham » 10 Jan 2020, 7:10pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cyclists may be thought suicidal by motorists for using the road at all, and it is ridiculous to suggest they are. They are actually doing their best not get killed by purblind drivers
.


That's what I do


I once saw a cyclist, in daylight, who was clearly doing his best not to get hit by an errant motor.
He was riding on the pavement, with helmet, hiviz and a strobe.
I wonder if he was quite as insistent as you that his get up should be worn by every non-suicidal cyclist?


To start with I'm not insistent just giving my experience about it and that was probably me you saw.

I wonder if the ones vehemently preaching against hi vis are in some doubt about their own all black attire. It's like you need my approval to continue wearing it -- you don't -- but if you were confident your kit is adequate for the job or as some put it not required to do the job of keeping you visible, you wouldn't be defending it for nearly 40 pages, you'd simply give me a fools pardon and move on.

Is there something wrong with all black cycling attire, or is it fine and safer than hi vis? -- you decide.

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Jan 2020, 7:18pm

Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
That's what I do


I once saw a cyclist, in daylight, who was clearly doing his best not to get hit by an errant motor.
He was riding on the pavement, with helmet, hiviz and a strobe.
I wonder if he was quite as insistent as you that his get up should be worn by every non-suicidal cyclist?


To start with I'm not insistent just giving my experience about it and that was probably me you saw.

I wonder if the ones vehemently preaching against hi-vis are in some doubt about their own all-black attire. It's like you need my approval to continue wearing it -- you don't -- but if you were confident your kit is adequate for the job or as some put it not required to do the job of keeping you visible, you wouldn't be defending it for nearly 40 pages, you'd simply give me a fool's pardon and move on.

Is there something wrong with all-black cycling attire, or is it fine and safer than hi-vis? -- you decide.


No-one is "preaching against HiViz"

They are just questioning the dubious and desperate claims and victim-blaming. Remember how epileptic drivers were unequivocal proof along with drugged up elderly drivers?

Remember claiming that a fatal accident would not have happened if the rider had been wearing HIViz (with no knowledge of the actual incident)

The real problem remains is that you can wear as much HioViz as you wish, as bright a light as you wish, but unless the motorist is driving at an appropriates speed, not charging around corners they cannot see past, and reacting properly it is not going to save anyone.

Cowsham
Posts: 193
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cowsham » 10 Jan 2020, 7:23pm

Cunobelin wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Yet from
Your own evidence your attitude and expectations are different when behind the wheel... remember the uncontrolled sliding round an open corner because you were going too fast to see and lost control of the car?


Remember the illegal cyclist?
No I don't remember the uncontrolled sliding
You are misquoting again -- Varpol ?


So you don't remember your own posts... convenient


You changed my post when you quoted it -- I can't be bothered to reply to someone who stoops that low to defend their side of the debate or not read posts before they comment on it.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4174
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 10 Jan 2020, 7:35pm

Cowsham wrote:
To start with I'm not insistent just giving my experience about it and that was probably me you saw.

I wonder if the ones vehemently preaching against hi vis are in some doubt about their own all black attire. It's like you need my approval to continue wearing it -- you don't -- but if you were confident your kit is adequate for the job or as some put it not required to do the job of keeping you visible, you wouldn't be defending it for nearly 40 pages, you'd simply give me a fools pardon and move on.

Is there something wrong with all black cycling attire, or is it fine and safer than hi vis? -- you decide.


Are you saying that you ride on the pavement, in daylight, dressed like that? Crikey. Have you ridden in Surfleet?

What the people who take issue with your vehemence in telling them to wear lurid hiviz are about is not to defend their own dress, but to attack that view of road safety. The view that we are the problem and nothing can be done about the lethal lack of restraint of drivers, and their flouting of the advice in the H.C.
We are though, fed up with all the badgering we get to take a precaution of no proven value.
I would you remind you that this thread was begun by a believer, and you are equally guilty of keeping it going. Do you have doubts?
I would think that few of us wear all black. Most have a coloured jersey. Like the Fire Brigade vehicles, I favour red in my jerseys, and I even have a lurid yellow light top for days when it might drizzle.
I suggest you turn your zeal to publicising the inadequate test for eyesight in the driving test.
It has been estimated that one to two million drivers could not now pass even that test. It can be passed by some people registered as blind! Another estimate is that one in five drivers suffers from "low luminance myopia", night blindness.

Cowsham
Posts: 193
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cowsham » 10 Jan 2020, 8:16pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
To start with I'm not insistent just giving my experience about it and that was probably me you saw.

I wonder if the ones vehemently preaching against hi vis are in some doubt about their own all black attire. It's like you need my approval to continue wearing it -- you don't -- but if you were confident your kit is adequate for the job or as some put it not required to do the job of keeping you visible, you wouldn't be defending it for nearly 40 pages, you'd simply give me a fools pardon and move on.

Is there something wrong with all black cycling attire, or is it fine and safer than hi vis? -- you decide.


Are you saying that you ride on the pavement, in daylight, dressed like that? Crikey. Have you ridden in Surfleet?





Is that where the roads are fluorescent yellow ?

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 10 Jan 2020, 8:19pm

Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
To start with I'm not insistent just giving my experience about it and that was probably me you saw.

I wonder if the ones vehemently preaching against hi vis are in some doubt about their own all black attire. It's like you need my approval to continue wearing it -- you don't -- but if you were confident your kit is adequate for the job or as some put it not required to do the job of keeping you visible, you wouldn't be defending it for nearly 40 pages, you'd simply give me a fools pardon and move on.

Is there something wrong with all black cycling attire, or is it fine and safer than hi vis? -- you decide.


Are you saying that you ride on the pavement, in daylight, dressed like that? Crikey. Have you ridden in Surfleet?

Is that where the roads are fluorescent yellow ?



There seems to be some misunderstanding.

I said that I saw a pavement cyclist helmeted, in hiviz and with a strobe light.
You said "that was probably me you saw."
So I asked whether you had ridden in Surfleet, because this is where I saw this prodigy.

Cowsham
Posts: 193
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cowsham » 10 Jan 2020, 8:26pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:

Are you saying that you ride on the pavement, in daylight, dressed like that? Crikey. Have you ridden in Surfleet?

Is that where the roads are fluorescent yellow ?



There seems to be some misunderstanding.

I said that I saw a pavement cyclist helmeted, in hiviz and with a strobe light.
You said "that was probably me you saw."
So I asked whether you had ridden in Surfleet, because this is where I saw this prodigy.


Just yankin your chain :)

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gaz
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Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Why wear black?

Postby gaz » 10 Jan 2020, 8:30pm

Cowsham wrote:Is that where the roads are fluorescent yellow ?

We're not in Kansas anymore.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

Mike Sales
Posts: 4174
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 10 Jan 2020, 8:33pm

Cowsham wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Cowsham wrote:


There seems to be some misunderstanding.

I said that I saw a pavement cyclist helmeted, in hiviz and with a strobe light.
You said "that was probably me you saw."
So I asked whether you had ridden in Surfleet, because this is where I saw this prodigy.


Just yankin your chain :)


It seems a silly, evasive tactic.

Do you think he is going too far?