US laws

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Shoogle
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US laws

Postby Shoogle » 31 Dec 2019, 8:44pm

The pro-motorist/anti cycling laws are even worse in the US than here.
The guy was nearly killed and she got away with no charge as it was an 'accident'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-50956941

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100%JR
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Re: US laws

Postby 100%JR » 31 Dec 2019, 8:51pm

Speaking from his hospital bed, Mr Quigley said: "I'm happy that the driver will not be charged as I don't want her punished. It is traumatic enough to knock someone down.

"I am recovering well and I've nothing against her. Everyone makes mistakes and there was no malicious intent so I will write a letter to her when I am better to let her know this."

nuff said :wink:
Accidents happen!

fastpedaller
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Re: US laws

Postby fastpedaller » 3 Jan 2020, 9:54am

100%JR wrote:
Speaking from his hospital bed, Mr Quigley said: "I'm happy that the driver will not be charged as I don't want her punished. It is traumatic enough to knock someone down.

"I am recovering well and I've nothing against her. Everyone makes mistakes and there was no malicious intent so I will write a letter to her when I am better to let her know this."

nuff said :wink:
Accidents happen!

Especially when the following drivers aren't paying attention...… But hey we'll let them continue, otherwise motorists will be upset!

mattheus
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Re: US laws

Postby mattheus » 3 Jan 2020, 10:16am

Mr Quigley is clearly an utter saint.

But that doesn't change the reality of a truly awful legal system. I was pretty gob-smacked at the verdict in this case.

(Hopefully the other silver lining here is to see that the UK legal system isn't ALL THAT bad, on a global scale. Happy New Year everyone :) )

willswitchengage
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Re: US laws

Postby willswitchengage » 3 Jan 2020, 12:17pm

This doesn't really offer much confidence in the potential extradition of Anne Sacoolas if accidents are non-prosecutable if they are deemed 'unintentional'.

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100%JR
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Re: US laws

Postby 100%JR » 5 Jan 2020, 7:59pm

fastpedaller wrote:
100%JR wrote:
Speaking from his hospital bed, Mr Quigley said: "I'm happy that the driver will not be charged as I don't want her punished. It is traumatic enough to knock someone down.
"I am recovering well and I've nothing against her. Everyone makes mistakes and there was no malicious intent so I will write a letter to her when I am better to let her know this."

nuff said :wink:
Accidents happen!

Especially when the following drivers aren't paying attention...… But hey we'll let them continue, otherwise motorists will be upset!

Typical "blame culture" response :roll: someone has to pay blah,blah,blah :roll:
It was an ACCIDENT.Accidents happen.If you try to blame one party then it ceases to become an accident :roll: It's the same everywhere now..why are people intent on blaming someone?
Modern society where accidents aren't allowed to be called accidents any more :x

Mr Quigley has made his(very sensible)statement so maybe leave it at that instead of jumping on the BC bandwagon?

Mike Sales
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Re: US laws

Postby Mike Sales » 5 Jan 2020, 8:19pm

If any other transport system killed so many people steps would be taken to try to stop it happening again, it would not be dismissed as "just an accident, can't be helped".
In the air, or on the rails, there is an inquiry, a serious attempt to find out what went wrong, and measures taken to prevent a repetition.
If road users are not culpable when they kill, then it must be the fault of the road environment, or the road laws, or the expectations placed upon road users which are beyond the average capacity, and changes are needed.
"Oh dear, what a pity, never mind" is not good enough.
Why do we accept a road environment which is so dangerous when used in a normal fashion? Motors are the most common cause of death in young men, the most common cause of violent death for all, but we have accepted this as the price we have to pay for the convenience of driving.

jgurney
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Re: US laws

Postby jgurney » 5 Jan 2020, 8:33pm

100%JR wrote:Accidents happen.


That we cannot prevent all of them does not mean we should make no effort to prevent many of them.

blame one party then it ceases to become an accident


Not at all - many accidents happen because someone was at fault. That does not mean it was not an accident, just that it was an accident which happened because someone was careless.

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100%JR
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Re: US laws

Postby 100%JR » 5 Jan 2020, 8:44pm

It's blame culture.
As it involves a cyclist and a motor vehicle and is being discussed on a cycling Forum then it's obvious the "blame the motoring" brigade will jump to the conclusions they have :lol:
The same thread on a motoring Forum would no doubt get the opposite knee-jerk response :roll:

The same thread on a neutral Forum would probably get the right response....accident.Let it go.

People(or some people) have been brainwashed into believing that someone always has to be blamed so someone else can get paid :roll:

I refer you to my first post and Mr Quigley's statement.

Mike Sales
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Re: US laws

Postby Mike Sales » 5 Jan 2020, 8:54pm

100%JR wrote:It's blame culture.
As it involves a cyclist and a motor vehicle and is being discussed on a cycling Forum then it's obvious the "blame the motoring" brigade will jump to the conclusions they have :lol:
The same thread on a motoring Forum would no doubt get the opposite knee-jerk response :roll:

The same thread on a neutral Forum would probably get the right response....accident.Let it go.

People(or some people) have been brainwashed into believing that someone always has to be blamed so someone else can get paid :roll:

I refer you to my first post and Mr Quigley's statement.


I refer you to my post.
If vehicle operators cannot be blamed for the mistakes they make, then the blames must lie with the road environment, which includes the capacities given to motor vehicles.
As it happens, the police analysed the actions which led to car/cycle collisions and the data was passesd to the Transport Laboratory which came to the conclusion that the responsibility lay with the driver in about 80% of cases.
Other studies have come to the same conclusion.
You might not like the word blame, but road "incidents" do have a cause, they are generally due to somebody's mistake, they are seldom "Acts of God", and if we are to reduce road deaths and maimings finding out where responsibility lies is very important.

Vorpal
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Re: US laws

Postby Vorpal » 5 Jan 2020, 10:37pm

In the USA, the law, and how it is enforced varies considerably form one state to another. Texas is probably the most motor-centric of all the US states. I honestly think that she would have received a penalty of some sort in most of the northern states.

I don't know the circumstances of this crash, though it was at a junction, and the driver may have been turning or have failed to give way or something https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/11/20 ... ist-police

In this one, one driver obviously did something wrong. The other driver's contribution is less clear. https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/crim ... 587790001/

The most common thing is that a driver receives a 'citation', which is akin to a fixed penalty* for something like 'negligent driving', plus anything else they might have done incorrectly, such as 'improper turn', or 'failure to yield' (give way).

I'm sure I could find more. The USA is very motor-centric. And there are some significant gaps in the law. This article explains it well https://nextcity.org/features/view/how- ... rth-anyway But I think that in most states the driver would at least have received a citation for negligent driving.


*citation usually means that the driver recieves a notice that they have done something wrong, and will have points or equivalent on their licence, and have to pay a fee. The notice typically says that they can contest the citation by appearing in court. Failure to pay will result in a court date being assigned (i.e. they assume it is being contested). This will result in additional court fees, if they are judged to be at fault, and may result in a higher penalty. For something like negligent driving, a judge can suspend their licence (ban them).
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Vorpal
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Re: US laws

Postby Vorpal » 5 Jan 2020, 10:40pm

A few posts have been removed. Please keep it civil.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

MikeF
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Re: US laws

Postby MikeF » 7 Jan 2020, 8:52pm

100%JR wrote:It's blame culture.
As it involves a cyclist and a motor vehicle and is being discussed on a cycling Forum then it's obvious the "blame the motoring" brigade will jump to the conclusions they have :lol:
The same thread on a motoring Forum would no doubt get the opposite knee-jerk response :roll:

The same thread on a neutral Forum would probably get the right response....accident.Let it go.

People(or some people) have been brainwashed into believing that someone always has to be blamed so someone else can get paid :roll:

I refer you to my first post and Mr Quigley's statement.
The 737 Max crashes were "accidents" in your mind. Nothing to do with the software problem. :roll:
Obviously our railways should still be signalled on a time basis instead of a block basis which was implemented as a result of the Clayton Tunnel "accident". :roll:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

fullupandslowingdown
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Re: US laws

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 14 Jan 2020, 9:32pm

https://youtu.be/NkvXMUoKOMI?t=239
accident or stupidity? suppose there had been a boat passing underneath, suppose it was the school waterbus?

kwackers
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Re: US laws

Postby kwackers » 14 Jan 2020, 10:16pm

What constitutes "malicious"?
To my mind that suggests a deliberate action.

If that's the case almost no incident is malicious. Doing 50mph in a 30 and someone runs out and dies? It's an accident since you didn't intend to kill someone. Run into the back of someone because you're using your phone? Accident, again no deliberate intent.
Ditto because you're daydreaming / picking your nose / searching through the glove box. Accident.

IMO it's not possible to run into the back of someone unless you're doing something wrong.
To be truly an accident something must happen that was outside of your control; mechanical failure, distraction due to some unusual event - a naked person riding a kangaroo whilst wearing a bowler hat for example.
If that's not the case then there's most definitely blame involved.