BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

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bernardleanse96
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BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby bernardleanse96 » 18 Jan 2020, 8:43pm

I had a bad crash in the Chiltern Hills today.

https://youtu.be/HjeEA8W6I-Q

I'm completely fine though.

Please share tips on how to avoid this happening again out in the hills in winter. Was running conti gp5000 25mm at 90psi. 80kg Rider with extra weight in saddle bag.

peetee
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby peetee » 18 Jan 2020, 9:28pm

There is no grip available in such conditions unless you use spiked tyres and suffer the drag on in-iced sections. Even a trike would risk loss of control but with a reduced risk of damage and injury.
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mjr
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby mjr » 18 Jan 2020, 9:42pm

Maybe it helps to keep to gritted roads shown on council gritting maps but even gritted roads will ice over if there is not enough traffic to grind the grit. Lower pressure wider tyres of softer compounds are more likely to find grip if there is any to be had but sometimes spiked tyres are the only way. That or wait for the thaw.
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gaz
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby gaz » 18 Jan 2020, 9:47pm

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PH
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby PH » 18 Jan 2020, 9:49pm

Hope you're OK.
I had a close one through a housing estate mid morning today, I felt the back sliding and cruised to a halt just before a T junction, then mounted the kerb to have a think about what to do. Moments later a motorbike pulled into the road and went straight down...
Apart from spikes, there isn't anything to do except avoid, trouble is knowing what and when, today's 100 meter section was the only bit of ice on a 30km ride.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 18 Jan 2020, 10:05pm

There's nothing you can do once on ice on normal tyres. It's amazing how unexpectedly and quickly you can go down.

As others have said, stick to gritted main roads helps, ice spiked tyres solves the problem. Other than that, it's basically just luck whether you stay up or not.

pwa
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby pwa » 18 Jan 2020, 10:10pm

Spiked tyres - never used them myself and I'm not sure you can get them to fit a road race bike
Stick to gritted roads - my favoured option
Stay off bike on frosty mornings - if your cycling is recreational

reohn2
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jan 2020, 10:16pm

bernardleanse96 wrote:......Please share tips on how to avoid this happening again out in the hills in winter.......

It's simple,don't ride in such conditions.If thre's black ice it's not only two wheelers who risk losing control,but four wheelers too,and if those things hit you,they really hurt! :(
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pwa
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby pwa » 18 Jan 2020, 10:26pm

reohn2 wrote:
bernardleanse96 wrote:......Please share tips on how to avoid this happening again out in the hills in winter.......

It's simple,don't ride in such conditions.If thre's black ice it's not only two wheelers who risk losing control,but four wheelers too,and if those things hit you,they really hurt! :(


That is the big worry. I've hit the deck a few times and on each occasion my immediate concern has not been the pain from my hip or elbow, but the prospect of a vehicle coming along behind me, losing control on the ice, and sliding along the same line I've just slid along. If I can avoid cycling in icy conditions I do.

whoof
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby whoof » 18 Jan 2020, 10:32pm

Was planning a 75 mile loop into South Wales on my winter weekend bike (700c by 25 mm tyres). When I saw the temperature and the car wind screens changed to a 50 mile loop of South Gloucestershire on my old tourer with 1.75" x 26" spiked tyres. Slower but went over a few ice patches without incident.
As above can't get them in skinny sizes. Mrs Whoof used her old tourer with 700c by 35 mm spiked tyres.
Looks like same again tomorrow and will ride the same bike on the Bath Bristol railway path and Two Tunnels route. Whatever tyres you have you can only control your own traction there's nothing you can do about cars losing it and sliding toward you.
Someone may suggest a tricycle. Will stop you falling over sideways. Will not stop wheeling spinning going up hill and sliding down hill or around corners. Also far more expensive than a spare pair of tyres, wheels or even a spare bike and requires more room for storage.

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horizon
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby horizon » 18 Jan 2020, 10:35pm

bernardleanse96 wrote:I had a bad crash in the Chiltern Hills today.

https://youtu.be/HjeEA8W6I-Q

I'm completely fine though.

Please share tips on how to avoid this happening again out in the hills in winter.



Imagine even a fraction of all the promotion, advertising, campaigning and exhortation (as well as the personal cash) that goes into another well-known safety device going into spiked tyres: where to buy them, which ones, how to fit them, when to use them. A huge lesson about distraction robbery there methinks - the OP has been robbed by the safety lobby.

PS Nothing intended against helmets (could even be useful here), just a rant about the vacuous irresponsibility of those who fail to promote real safety devices. Remember, the OP has claimed innocence of any knowledge of studded tyres. Why isn't the word out there?
The experience of travel is something that you have to pay for but can never buy. Ho Ri Zon Chinese philosopher

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The utility cyclist
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Jan 2020, 11:17pm

bernardleanse96 wrote:I had a bad crash in the Chiltern Hills today.

https://youtu.be/HjeEA8W6I-Q

I'm completely fine though.

Please share tips on how to avoid this happening again out in the hills in winter. Was running conti gp5000 25mm at 90psi. 80kg Rider with extra weight in saddle bag.

IMO your pressures are very high, I'm 96kg wet through and run 25 front on my carbon bike and I have it at 80 though it is a tub, I wouldn't have it that much higher even for a clincher. Personally I'd knock 10-12 psi off the front and 8-10 off the back. lowering them a bit will help generally in inclement weather.

Additionally looking at where open fields or dips in the landscape that expose roads to wind blast, this will increase chance of ice forming as will run off water from fields. Riding more centrally in the lane and avoiding riding in the gutter were ice is more likely to form.

Forget spiked or studded tyres, for the extremely few times you'll come across ice that you may not be able to predict you'll come across it's really not worth it for this country. Riding more cautiously and slowing down in inclement weather is far more effective.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Jan 2020, 11:21pm

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
bernardleanse96 wrote:......Please share tips on how to avoid this happening again out in the hills in winter.......

It's simple,don't ride in such conditions.If thre's black ice it's not only two wheelers who risk losing control,but four wheelers too,and if those things hit you,they really hurt! :(


That is the big worry. I've hit the deck a few times and on each occasion my immediate concern has not been the pain from my hip or elbow, but the prospect of a vehicle coming along behind me, losing control on the ice, and sliding along the same line I've just slid along. If I can avoid cycling in icy conditions I do.

How many times has this happened to a cyclist in say the last 50 years?
I've never heard of that instance occurring though obviously there was the Rhyll incident but that was due to massively excessive speed, a once in a lifetime situation.
I'd never think about not going out because it might be icy on my route.

bernardleanse96
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby bernardleanse96 » 18 Jan 2020, 11:35pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:It's simple,don't ride in such conditions.If thre's black ice it's not only two wheelers who risk losing control,but four wheelers too,and if those things hit you,they really hurt! :(


That is the big worry. I've hit the deck a few times and on each occasion my immediate concern has not been the pain from my hip or elbow, but the prospect of a vehicle coming along behind me, losing control on the ice, and sliding along the same line I've just slid along. If I can avoid cycling in icy conditions I do.

How many times has this happened to a cyclist in say the last 50 years?
I've never heard of that instance occurring though obviously there was the Rhyll incident but that was due to massively excessive speed, a once in a lifetime situation.
I'd never think about not going out because it might be icy on my route.


I'm just after tips if I'm stubborn enough to say I'm going out on my road bike (the only bike I own) for a long weekend ride over beautiful hills in the sun and near freezing apart from going on main roads as let's face it that's not the fun in propper road riding. Studded tyres is not an option on a road bike. I checked the Strava segment of the road I crashed and 10 other riders rode this faster than I did and appeared to be on road bikes and didn't crash.

drossall
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Re: BLACK ICE & How to stay safe road riding in winter.

Postby drossall » 19 Jan 2020, 12:07am

The traditional approach was a fixed wheel (again, won't really work on your road bike though). There's more danger of losing the back wheel, and fixed gives you more feel as you slow the wheel with your feet.