A worrying thought about hand signals

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Bmblbzzz
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby Bmblbzzz » 6 Feb 2020, 1:25pm

For going straight on, I think pointing straight forward would probably be best. I can't think of many situations where it's terribly useful though. The "pointing up for follow me" sign as described by mjr can be useful.

As for bells versus voice, I can think of a few occasions where groups of pedestrians strolling along occupying the whole width of cycle track (such as converted railway, not a roadside track) have been so engrossed in conversation they haven't heard several (different) bells but have responded to a voice calling "ting ting!". A high pitched bell is easily obscured by chatter and also falls into the common hearing loss range for older people.

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kylecycler
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby kylecycler » 6 Feb 2020, 4:07pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:For going straight on, I think pointing straight forward would probably be best. I can't think of many situations where it's terribly useful though. The "pointing up for follow me" sign as described by mjr can be useful.

As for bells versus voice, I can think of a few occasions where groups of pedestrians strolling along occupying the whole width of cycle track (such as converted railway, not a roadside track) have been so engrossed in conversation they haven't heard several (different) bells but have responded to a voice calling "ting ting!". A high pitched bell is easily obscured by chatter and also falls into the common hearing loss range for older people.

A fellow club member who is terribly nice calls out, "Cyclists coming through," and never upsets of frightens anyone.

It's partly to do with the way she times it - I learned from her that I was leaving ringing the bell or calling out too late, such that the poor pedestrian was - quite literally in one case - jumping about two feet in the air - but also the way she says it - she's so nice...

"It ain't what you say, it's the way that you say it." :lol:

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freiston
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby freiston » 6 Feb 2020, 5:48pm

Regarding passing pedestrians and bells - I give my loud pinger bell a double ping well in advance when I'm approaching walkers from behind. If they don't look back or obviously move to the side, I give a second couple of pings (still from a good distance), this usually gets their attention. If it doesn't, by that time I am usually close enough to call out "hello" and be heard. I slow down and give a wide berth as I pass and I say thank you. I don't recall ever having an unfavourable reaction.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)

Bmblbzzz
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby Bmblbzzz » 6 Feb 2020, 6:04pm

I'd agree that's the best way to do it. Ping from well back and a double-ping is good, one to get attention and the second to be consciously heard: a bit like using a filler word to introduce a question or make a statement: "So, word word word."

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mjr
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 6:05pm

Could we possibly leave the bell discussion to viewtopic.php?f=7&t=132309 and concentrate on hand signals? Sorry for replying to it earlier.
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby Bmblbzzz » 6 Feb 2020, 6:06pm

And bringing this back to hand signals: when I'm walking along a shared cycle path or track (which actually happens quite a lot) and a cyclist comes up behind and pings their bell to alert me, I'll usually raise my hand in the air (whichever hand is nearer the middle of the path) as a sign that I'm aware of them, am not going to deviate or suddenly stop, nor startle as they ride by.

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foxyrider
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby foxyrider » 6 Feb 2020, 8:17pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:As for bells versus voice, I can think of a few occasions where groups of pedestrians strolling along occupying the whole width of cycle track (such as converted railway, not a roadside track) have been so engrossed in conversation they haven't heard several (different) bells but have responded to a voice calling "ting ting!". A high pitched bell is easily obscured by chatter and also falls into the common hearing loss range for older people.


i've had this a lot (The Monsal Trail seems particularly prone to such groups).
'haven't you got a bell?' they lambast, 'i rang it but you ignored it,' i reply.
On one occasion a whole troop (?) of Brownies and their adults not only ignored the bell but a series of polite warnings as they swarmed across the shared path on the Humber Bridge right next to the sign requesting pedestrians to be aware of and avoid hindering cycles (yep these signs do exist!)

Maybe the answer is one of those klaxons :lol:
Convention? what's that then?
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The utility cyclist
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby The utility cyclist » 6 Feb 2020, 10:13pm

mjr wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
John Holiday wrote:Always a good idea to have a decent cycle bell, & not a pinger.
Usually gets a path users attention, slow down & share with care. [...]

Ah so like a car horn, used to get people out the way :roll: If you have to use a bell then you've failed to do what you should have done, verbal communication directly is 100% better, I'd never use a bell nor advocate one for ANY situation.

No, it's the opposite of the usual use of a car horn: a bell is sounded well before approaching to avoid startling people. Verbal communication is too late and makes walkers behave very unpredictably and sometimes angrily. Bells are better - ring a jolly tune!


it's not too late at all, your ringing people to move out the way, this annoys and antagonises and is impersonal/rude, it also ignores the fact that some people are deaf/hard of hearing. If people haven't seen or heard you coming (tyre or movement noise, squeaking brake or whatever) then simply saying excuse me or as others have said a verbal ding ding from a short distance away is massively more effective, it's also safer as you've slowed down to the pedestrians pace or stopped.
If they've not heard your verbal dingaling then a gentle tap/hand on the shoulder/arm as a last resort is fine, which would usually be the case if they are completely deaf or have headphones in and totally unaware of your presence.

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mjr
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Re: A worrying thought about hand signals

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 10:55pm

The utility cyclist wrote:If they've not heard your verbal dingaling then a gentle tap/hand on the shoulder/arm as a last resort is fine, [...]

It's really not, as explained in viewtopic.php?f=7&t=132309 which is where bells belong.
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