Pothole Perdition...

[661-Pete]

Dunno about how long it takes to fix potholes - looks like ∞ years, to me...

Round hereabouts, the 'pothole season' continues unabated, all the year round. Anyone who thinks they're entirely due to frost, I can set them right! We've had hardly any frost this winter, and no snow: just rain, rain, and yet more rain (like everywhere else in the UK). Yet new potholes continue to spring up (or rather, down)...

Many of the worst potholes are clustered around the industrial estate, especially at bends and corners. Doesn't that tell us something? I reckon a lot of them are caused, or at any rate deepened, by HGVs manoeuvring in a tight spot.

What's the mileage in fitting a device to HGVs and other heavy vehicles, so that the steering wheel cannot be turned when the vehicle is stationary? Or would that just make them utterly impossible to manoeuvre at all? Of course the same ought to be applied to cars, though that may be going too far! I've seen plenty of drivers totally unable to reverse-park into a roadside space without turning the wheel while stationary. What on earth do they teach them for the Driving Test? I was never taught to reverse-park in my days, it wasn't in the Driving Test then. But I have no problems!

Anyway, as always, whenever there's a news item about potholes, they invariably stress the 'inconvenience to motorists': the need to get their suspension or steering checked over. Big deal! Nothing about the 'inconvenience to cyclists'! Because for a cyclist, if they're really unlucky, it can be more than an 'inconvenience' - it can be a death warrant...

[peetee]

Roads are designed to shed water but the surfaces and the layers beneath are permeable and heavy continuous rain can create potholes by undermining small areas of the road as well as causing the more obvious subsidence that occasionally occurs. Sometimes potholes are a sign of more serious problems under the road and no amount of patching solves the problem because the heavy traffic causes that patch to give more than the surrounding road. Other times potholes and degrading surface can be caused by tyre friction ripping the surface away. This is why surfaces are often worse where heavy or frequent braking occurs such as downhill junctions or approaches to trunk road roundabouts.

[flat tyre]

Near where I live there is a cross roads junction. There are almost permanent potholes on the left side of the road just after the junction. There isn't much HGV traffic, but what causes the potholes seems to be i) unnecessarily large cars (ie SUV type) and people driving these cars using unnecessary acceleration away from the junction (it's a 30mph limit). In my view this type of car should taxed so that the owners contribute to the environmental cost of them. They should also be fitted with some device that limits the amount of power transmitted as this combined with the weight is what is causing damage to the road.

[andrewwillans49]

Perdition! That's strong. I do agree that potholes can be dangerous and our road system in terms of maintenance is somewhat lacking. Living in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and living in the southeast of England so even wealthier councils one would wager, logic would have me believe our roads ought to be in a better state of repair than is currently the case.
The pothole debate resurfaces annually(an unintended pun there). Rather than hope they're one day going to magically disappear, I accept the state of things and take my own measures to mitigate things as they are. Namely, fitting a pair of 40 mm Donnelly tyres to my' cross bike. It's a bit slower than my road bike but I'm just glad to be able to cycle without worrying about the state of the roads.
Not everyone has the option of fitting big volume tyres, and for those people I have no easy answer.
I've been cycling since the 60s and potholes have always been an issue no matter what govt we've had. It's not austerity or cuts it's a mindset in Britain. As I mentioned earlier, this is a very wealthy country we just lack the will. Ministers of transport come and go. No easy answer

[TrevA]

Derby cyclists recently held a first birthday party for a pothole. Reported one year ago and still not fixed

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... st-3892732

I echo what Pete says about HGVs causing potholes, especially on roads that weren’t designed for them. Near me, there’s an industrial park about 5 miles off the A52, the route to it from the main road is just a normal country road with no kerbs. The road edges are badly broken up and the road is just crumbling away in places. All caused by the big, heavy lorries using it.

I’ve also noticed that you get more potholes where there are roadside trees. I think this is because there’s a constant drip of water from the tree onto the road, which then enters and undermines the road surface. It’s not caused by the tree roots, as far as I can see.

[661-Pete]

Perdition! That's strong.

OK. I was looking for something alliterative, and 'purgatory' didn't quite fit the bill. I suppose it would, if the Council got their finger out and actually fixed the holes pronto!

Rather than hope they're one day going to magically disappear, I accept the state of things and take my own measures to mitigate things as they are. Namely, fitting a pair of 40 mm Donnelly tyres to my' cross bike. It's a bit slower than my road bike but I'm just glad to be able to cycle without worrying about the state of the roads.

So do I - but riding on narrow tyres all the time, I just have to see them in time and avoid them! I think I'm fairly adept at that - the only time I've fallen at a pothole in recent years was going through a flood (silly me!) when I literally couldn't see the road surface (I was soaked but unhurt).

But I'm more concerned about less experienced cyclists. We have to provide reasonable conditions for them too!

No easy answer

You're probably right, there.

[reohn2]

Potholes are just part the rich tapestry of life in a thoroughly backward country

[661-Pete]

I was rather amused upon spotting this sign today:

Sorry about the rather poor quality - snapped quickly on my phone. I rather imagine the 'amendment' to the sign is unofficial!

As it happens I didn't venture along Streat Lane today (haven't been that way for quite a while) so I don't know how bad the pothole situation is. Pretty dire, I guess - as on many other roads in Sussex....

[fullupandslowingdown]

I dare say there were potholes back in the day, and maybe not repaired all that quickly, but never in the numbers in the last few years. It's like they're a virus, a tarmac virus that is rapidly spreading around the road network. Maybe we need to ban long distance travelling to keep the viral potholes isolated. Like back in the foot and mouth crisis where we had to wash our wheels down before and after entering any farm.

The road transport lobby is quite right in one respect. Lorries are out and about all over the place delivering stuff. You might not notice them on some roads, but I bet yer, they are coming. And given all the business that amazon, tesco et al do online, that too will account for a lot more rural mileage. I'm not so sure about blaming trees though. Plenty of potholes where there aren't any, and 50 years ago there used to be a lot more roadside trees.

I blame an unholy trinity. Heavier vehicles. Lower tar content tarmac combined with recycled aggregates. And poorer preparation. Even 50 years ago councils used to use heavy road rollers which would spend all day trundling up and down to compact the road base. I know modern civils love their vibrating pokers and whacker plates, but has it been a con. Theory says if you vibrate a mix, it will compact more solidly. But what if it isn't? I was taught 30 years ago not to overmix or finish concrete etc because you actually end up bringing the finer particles towards the surface making it overall weaker. What if this is happening when vibrating road rollers operate, the finest particles are getting vibrated out the mix?

[andrewwillans49]

I dare say there were potholes back in the day, and maybe not repaired all that quickly, but never in the numbers in the last few years. It's like they're a virus, a tarmac virus that is rapidly spreading around the road network. Maybe we need to ban long distance travelling to keep the viral potholes isolated. Like back in the foot and mouth crisis where we had to wash our wheels down before and after entering any farm.

The road transport lobby is quite right in one respect. Lorries are out and about all over the place delivering stuff. You might not notice them on some roads, but I bet yer, they are coming. And given all the business that amazon, tesco et al do online, that too will account for a lot more rural mileage. I'm not so sure about blaming trees though. Plenty of potholes where there aren't any, and 50 years ago there used to be a lot more roadside trees.

I blame an unholy trinity. Heavier vehicles. Lower tar content tarmac combined with recycled aggregates. And poorer preparation. Even 50 years ago councils used to use heavy road rollers which would spend all day trundling up and down to compact the road base. I know modern civils love their vibrating pokers and whacker plates, but has it been a con. Theory says if you vibrate a mix, it will compact more solidly. But what if it isn't? I was taught 30 years ago not to overmix or finish concrete etc because you actually end up bringing the finer particles towards the surface making it overall weaker. What if this is happening when vibrating road rollers operate, the finest particles are getting vibrated out the mix?

Spot on.
As an aside, do many on this forum cycle the same routes frequently? I do and I've observed the same potholes growing steadily. Considered naming them. I fitted 40 mm tyres and plough on.

[fastpedaller]

I've seen the 'operatives' just poking the tar down with their foot in this locality!

[aegelstane]

Private Eye 21st February; "Shropshire Council which spent £80,000 resurfacing a lane leading to a Tory councillor's house while other roads remain pitted with potholes [Eye 1509] has found a brilliant cost-effective solution. It's paying a "pothole consultant" £1,000 a day to,er,look into the problem."
[The resurfaced lane wasn't even on the council's hit list!] On March 5th the local press informed the plebs that the county's highways maintenance contractor, Keir, would have it's work "monitored closely" The next council meeting would also discuss the annual report on their engineering consultant - WSP. "The press and public will be dismissed before this discussion." I think it's something in the water supply at Shirehall! Aegelstane

[661-Pete]

I've seen the 'operatives' just poking the tar down with their foot in this locality!

I wish I'd been watching when they 'fixed' one of the worst potholes in our town last week - right on the edge of a busy roundabout, where no pothole has any business being! It was still there on the Wednesday, 'filled' by Friday. So far so good but how long will it last? Looks a bit like one of your 'foot-stomping' solutions....

I shall continue to approach that roundabout, which I cross almost daily, with trepidation. Better wary than dead...

[Revolution]

It seems to me that a large proportion of pot holes start when a contractor has dug up the road surface to work on utilities - gas, water or whatever.
After the job it is re-filled but after a few months the filling begins to turn into a depression and then pounding of lorry wheels makes a bad situation worse.
Surely it should be mandated that after digging a hole in the road, repairs should be monitored for at least a year to ensure that they are satisfactory.

[NUKe]

Someone commented that Potholes were probably just as prevalent years ago. I think you will find that they weren’t. For a number of reasons
1. The volumes of traffic were a lot lower
2. Vehicles including cars are significantly heavier
3. Councils had bigger budgets and teams dedicate to the roads