Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Postboxer
Posts: 1539
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Postboxer » 10 Mar 2020, 9:58pm

Are there any traffic wardens anywhere? Or only parking attendants?

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 12297
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Mar 2020, 7:52am

Just been driving again, the first time for a while
I did notice that my signalling was very good, used the nearside mirror too :wink:

Better too many signals than too few
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 12297
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Mar 2020, 7:56am

Postboxer wrote:Are there any traffic wardens anywhere? Or only parking attendants?

There are many near me, they issue tickets to vehicl€$ parked legally but longer than allowed/without having paid

Vehicles parked illegally are ignored :?
..
Nasty 'jokes' about traffic/parking wardens should not be tolerated, just like racist 'jokes' are not tolerated
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

Postboxer
Posts: 1539
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Postboxer » 11 Mar 2020, 10:31am

Here's a lovely sketch from That Mitchell and Webb Sound,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O33hDb8kIDA

Part of the joke being in the other sketches in the series, the jobs in question weren't very justified. From Wikipedia -

The Old Lady Job Justification Hearings - A series of sketches in Series 4. Set about 30 years into the future, these are recordings of meetings between people who have different jobs (such as cosmetic surgeon, wedding planner or comedy double-act) trying to justify what they do is a "proper" job (like a doctor, fireman or someone who runs a little shop) to a group of old women. In the final episode of the series, Mitchell and Webb themselves were the subjects of the hearings.

Psamathe
Posts: 11123
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Psamathe » 11 Mar 2020, 10:48am

OP and petition creator seems to have disappeared (no interest in the thread), at least from login history.

Ian

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 2913
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby The utility cyclist » 13 Mar 2020, 11:50pm

Of all the transgressions a motorist could do this is one of the lower ones down the order, in the vast majority of cases it's an annoyance and inconvenience, particularly at roundabouts/junctions were slowing/stopping instead of being able to continue making progress is not preferable.

There are times when not indicating could be more of a problem but, as an example the vehicle is usually already switching lanes and the absence of an indicator makes jack all difference in reality, these people would indicate and switch lanes at speed/sharp angle in any case leaving you no time to even acknowledge the indicator itself as the brain can't process the information quick enough so you're simply reacting to the vehicle moving.
The vast majority of motorists do indicate, some aren't great, some far too late but meh.

Sorry but this isn't worth the paper it's written on, far, far bigger fish to fry!

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 12297
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Mar 2020, 6:51am

The utility cyclist wrote:Of all the transgressions a motorist could do this is one of the lower ones down the order
..
The vast majority of motorists do indicate
..

1. Disagree, this is so easy to do right

I never trust indications or lack thereof, one sometimes sees mortons indicating then not turning

I think the last statement, 'the vast majority do indicate' is wrong
Shall be conducting observations today :?
..
My observations in the past shew that the vast majority cannae even read, at STOP signs almost none stop
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17178
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby [XAP]Bob » 14 Mar 2020, 11:06am

There are places where I deliberately don't indicate - because to do so seems to encourage dangerous manoeuvres...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 12297
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Mar 2020, 12:43pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:There are places where I deliberately don't indicate - because to do so seems to encourage dangerous manoeuvres...

Right again Bob
I indicate by tapping the brake pedal too. Doesnae help much :?
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

mikeymo
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby mikeymo » 14 Mar 2020, 2:51pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:There are places where I deliberately don't indicate - because to do so seems to encourage dangerous manoeuvres...


Top of my street:

Along the main road, approaching my street (which is on the right), immediately BEFORE my street (say 20 feet before?) is another turning to the right, into a car park. There is also, by the way, a street on the left, followed immediately by a bus stop, which frequently has a bus parked at it.

So as I approach my street, if I indicate right, somebody coming OUT of my street, turning right, MAY assume I'm going into the car park. Potential for crash there. It's a very busy car park. I'd say as many people turn into it as turn down my street.

Also following vehicles will sometimes "nip" round the inside of me, when they see the right indicator. Further opportunity for collision with vehicle coming out of my street. Especially if the vehicle nipping is small, and temporarily obscured by my huge X5.

Also not helped by the fact that people park on the left of my street, illegally(?), on the double yellows, almost up to the junction. So if somebody turns right just in front of me, but can't continue, I may not be able to complete the manoeuvre and am stranded on the opposite side of the road.

So I indicate "late", although I position the car for a right turn. Another problem then is getting trapped behind a vehicle going in to the car park. I'm not indicating at this point. But drivers behind MAY assume that I'm also going in to the car park. So they try to overtake on the inside, but then I carry on for the few feet to my junction.

I actually avoid turning right at the top of my street now, it's too dangerous. Too many junctions, and vision frequently obscured by parked cars. And sometimes I'll go a longer way round to get on to my street, for the reasons above. Depends a bit on time of day. If the shops are shut it's fine.

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 2913
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby The utility cyclist » 14 Mar 2020, 5:25pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Of all the transgressions a motorist could do this is one of the lower ones down the order
..
The vast majority of motorists do indicate
..

1. Disagree, this is so easy to do right

I never trust indications or lack thereof, one sometimes sees mortons indicating then not turning

I think the last statement, 'the vast majority do indicate' is wrong
Shall be conducting observations today :?
..
My observations in the past shew that the vast majority cannae even read, at STOP signs almost none stop

The vast majority of motorists do indicate, seriously you need to actually see how many times that you have to tut because they didn't when it was actually of any use to you. if someone does not indicate it doesn't mean that that was wrong in the first instance, there are occasions when there's no need to indicate as it's not actually helping anyone.
E.g. there's a bus that's taken on passengers in a bay ahead, you're 50m-75m back and the road ahead is clear for the bus.
Do you a) absolutely cane it to make sure you get in front before they pull out (MGIF) or b, ease off knowing that the bus will be wanting to pull out and they'll be ahead of you not posing any potential threat when they want to overtake in a short time thus a far less desirable outcome for both of you?
In that scenario there's actually no need for the bus driver to indicate, I KNOW he is going to pull out, for me it's a simple decision that doesn't need an indication, I'll hold primary and maybe give a wave for the driver if they are looking, it's cost me a couple of seconds at the most to make a decision that benefits both of us.

I don't rely on indications also, people make errors and change their minds, however most scenarios you can take the indication on trust, it's very rare for it not to be what motorists are intending to do, that doesn't mean you should get complacent but honestly you're barking up the wrong tree as to potential threat of harm. The mere fact you stated you don't trust indication in the first instance should give you a clue as to why ultimately it's not that big of a deal, just an annoyance when it slows you down unnecessarily.

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 12297
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Mar 2020, 7:29pm

Plenty do not indicate to move back to the nearside lane, I always do
Members of CLODS, Centre Lane Owner Drivers do not indicate, no need :?
..
Proving someone did something is one thing
Proving someone did not do something is quite another
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 2913
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby The utility cyclist » 15 Mar 2020, 4:30pm

If the motorist has given you enough room why do you need them to indicate they are moving back in, what benefit does that give you? By not doing so what action do you think they are going to make once they've come past?

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 12297
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Mar 2020, 5:01pm

I do not cycle in traffic
When crossing the road, cycling or walking, I wait for a gap instead of trusting drivers to signal, yield priority etc
Never trust a morton

I do not drive much either, fortunately :wink:
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

FOSS62
Posts: 1
Joined: 9 Dec 2019, 10:25pm

Re: Petition : Call for 3 points + £100 fine for NOT using indicators when driving

Postby FOSS62 » 15 Mar 2020, 10:33pm

I have to confess to having a ROADAR qualification (similar to IAM but we are re-tested every three years), but from that perspective I see this proposal as a terrible one. Signals are supposed to be useful to other road users and should be part of a decision making process. As others have already pointed out, a signal in the wrong place can generate a hazard in itself. The more people try to remove thought processes from driving, the more likely we are to be knocked off our bikes by people who ‘didn’t expect you to be there’.