Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

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Cunobelin
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Apr 2020, 7:03am

Last night on a dual carriageway section of the A27. laden Cyclist, so pulled into the outside lane to give plenty of room.

BMW at speed then forces its way through the gap, undertaking me and missing us both by inches.

Unfortunately, a lot of those taking "advantage" of the quiet roads are the irresponsible drivers

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 16 Apr 2020, 7:39am

[/youtube]
Cunobelin wrote:Last night on a dual carriageway section of the A27. laden Cyclist, so pulled into the outside lane to give plenty of room.

BMW at speed then forces its way through the gap, undertaking me and missing us both by inches.

Unfortunately, a lot of those taking "advantage" of the quiet roads are the irresponsible drivers

Best not to move right over to get by, do not leave room where a morton could undertake
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Carlton green
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Carlton green » 16 Apr 2020, 8:41am

andrewwillans49 wrote:Cyclists killed anytime is very sad let alone during lock down. FWIW, when cycling on minor roads I always pull over to let motorised traffic pass. I ride the same few 30 mile circular routes and know the danger points and am particularly alert on blind bends, to some extent assume a tractor is coming towards me.
Each death is a personal tragedy, and the incident is unique to that case. Of course there are careless and reckless drivers, as there are cyclists. A cyclist is always going to come off badly in a collision with a car or other motor vehicle. My advice, yield to cars every time, even if you've right of way, and get over "I have right of way mentality".
Here in my area, we have the Letchworth Greenway. It's a 13mile circular route 90% off road, mixed usage. Cyclists, walkers, dog walkers, joggers, all on this shared space. Some observe 2M distancing many don't. I find cyclists the least considerate by a long way. I generally avoid this route.
Pick your battles, stay safe everone.


Agreed with all of that, IMHO it’s a most useful perspective.

FWIW my recent experience is, with the occasional rare exception, of drivers behaving well and making allowances for me. There are and always have been misguided drivers who push up to and beyond the limits of safe road use, in the current climate such people do not have their progress impeded or observed by the normal volume of other (slower) drivers. As above, stay safe everyone.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Apr 2020, 9:46am

Cyril Haearn wrote:[/youtube]
Cunobelin wrote:Last night on a dual carriageway section of the A27. laden Cyclist, so pulled into the outside lane to give plenty of room.

BMW at speed then forces its way through the gap, undertaking me and missing us both by inches.

Unfortunately, a lot of those taking "advantage" of the quiet roads are the irresponsible drivers

Best not to move right over to get by, do not leave room where a morton could undertake


Agree this was an elderly person laden with two shopping bars on handlebars.. hence additional room

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mjr
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby mjr » 16 Apr 2020, 10:23am

andrewwillans49 wrote:FWIW, when cycling on minor roads I always pull over to let motorised traffic pass. [...] My advice, yield to cars every time, even if you've right of way, and get over "I have right of way mentality".

As posted previously, I'd say be extra cautious, but "always pull over" and "yield to cars every time" is going a bit far. Unexpected actions confuse other road users, increase the risk of confusion and crash, and at the minute unsignalled extra stops risk you getting a cyclist up your bum!

Better to modulate your approach speed to arrive at junctons in between motorists if you can.
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ossie
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby ossie » 16 Apr 2020, 10:53am

mjr wrote:
andrewwillans49 wrote:FWIW, when cycling on minor roads I always pull over to let motorised traffic pass. [...] My advice, yield to cars every time, even if you've right of way, and get over "I have right of way mentality".

As posted previously, I'd say be extra cautious, but "always pull over" and "yield to cars every time" is going a bit far. Unexpected actions confuse other road users, increase the risk of confusion and crash, and at the minute unsignalled extra stops risk you getting a cyclist up your bum!

Better to modulate your approach speed to arrive at junctons in between motorists if you can.


I'd agree with that. I use the mindset of riding defensively, its the same mindset I use when driving.

On narrow country lanes I'll yield to traffic when I know there's no safe passing spot for some distance. I've also learnt that tractors tend to be driven by Inconsiderate morons so I'll actively get out of their way at the earliest and safest opportunity. Nearly all of my close calls have been with tractors and their trailers.

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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Pete Owens » 16 Apr 2020, 10:54am

You should always be cautious about drawing too much significance from clusters of events in a sequence of random interval events (indeed one of the signs of a genuine random sequence is that you expect to see clusters). There was much debate here when there were 11 deaths in London a few years ago - but the trend didn't continue.

The other thing you need to take account of is the denominator. There have been a lot more cyclists out in the last month - with the fine weather and it being one of the few things we are still allowed to do.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Apr 2020, 11:12am

Pete Owens wrote:You should always be cautious about drawing too much significance from clusters of events in a sequence of random interval events (indeed one of the signs of a genuine random sequence is that you expect to see clusters). There was much debate here when there were 11 deaths in London a few years ago - but the trend didn't continue.

The other thing you need to take account of is the denominator. There have been a lot more cyclists out in the last month - with the fine weather and it being one of the few things we are still allowed to do.


Equally, it looks as though all of these were collisions with motor vehicles.

Of which there are 4x fewer on the roads I think?

Which suggests a very approximately 10x increase in cyclists collisions per motorist mile.

Together with figures reported as an increase in speeding from 10% to 40% of all drivers... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-52300428

So yes, it could be random, but it's very concerning, and at least likely to be indicative of a shift.

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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby ossie » 16 Apr 2020, 11:22am

Pete Owens wrote:The other thing you need to take account of is the denominator. There have been a lot more cyclists out in the last month - with the fine weather and it being one of the few things we are still allowed to do.


However a lot less people commuting to work by bicycle? I think its too early to draw any conclusions on these figures, we probably won't have any proper idea of what happened in the majority of these cases until the Investigations are complete. As we know Investigations are often extremely lengthy, add on a court case and its longer.

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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Psamathe » 16 Apr 2020, 12:23pm

One thing I have noticed on my rides (rural country lanes) is a low more walkers wandering down the middle of the road oblivious to the possibility of any traffic. Dog walkers in middle of road with dog on a long retractable lead. It's not an issue for me even if I have to stop as I'm in no rush and slow down or stop and you exchange pleasantries with the person.

My observation no more than personal impression but seems people are assuming no traffic and I wonder if there is a risk some cyclists might do the same and a risk the glance behind might become only a glance in the mirror or even sometimes skipped ... I'm not suggesting this is the case in the fatalities or any particular accident, just that when there is a silence in the countryside your mind can risk assuming you have the place to yourself.

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mjr
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby mjr » 16 Apr 2020, 1:23pm

Psamathe wrote:My observation no more than personal impression but seems people are assuming no traffic and I wonder if there is a risk some cyclists might do the same and a risk the glance behind might become only a glance in the mirror or even sometimes skipped ... I'm not suggesting this is the case in the fatalities or any particular accident, just that when there is a silence in the countryside your mind can risk assuming you have the place to yourself.

Then I ask a similar question to what I asked elsewhere: if you're not suggesting that is the case, why even mention it in this topic now? :mad:
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Psamathe » 16 Apr 2020, 1:27pm

mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:My observation no more than personal impression but seems people are assuming no traffic and I wonder if there is a risk some cyclists might do the same and a risk the glance behind might become only a glance in the mirror or even sometimes skipped ... I'm not suggesting this is the case in the fatalities or any particular accident, just that when there is a silence in the countryside your mind can risk assuming you have the place to yourself.

Then I ask a similar question to what I asked elsewhere: if you're not suggesting that is the case, why even mention it in this topic now? :mad:

Just chatting. Not every post in every thread is 100% addressing the OP's point raised (including in this thread) and just an observation I made.

Sorry if this breaks some rule or convention.

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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby mjr » 16 Apr 2020, 5:29pm

Psamathe wrote:
mjr wrote:Then I ask a similar question to what I asked elsewhere: if you're not suggesting that is the case, why even mention it in this topic now? :mad:

Just chatting. Not every post in every thread is 100% addressing the OP's point raised (including in this thread) and just an observation I made.

Basically "Bantz!" is not a great justification for what seemed like horrible victim-blaming comments.
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andrewwillans49
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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby andrewwillans49 » 16 Apr 2020, 5:49pm

mjr wrote:
andrewwillans49 wrote:FWIW, when cycling on minor roads I always pull over to let motorised traffic pass. [...] My advice, yield to cars every time, even if you've right of way, and get over "I have right of way mentality".

As posted previously, I'd say be extra cautious, but "always pull over" and "yield to cars every time" is going a bit far. Unexpected actions confuse other road users, increase the risk of confusion and crash, and at the minute unsignalled extra stops risk you getting a cyclist up your bum!

Better to modulate your approach speed to arrive at junctons in between motorists if you can.

I pull over on narrow twisty rural roads when a car or other vehicle wants to pass, obviously not when cycling along a road where passing is relatively safe. Why would a random cyclist hit me from behind? The reason I yield to motor traffic is because my 80kg is no match fir a1500 kg motor and I like the idea of living a bit longer

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Re: Cyclists killed during 'lockdown'

Postby Psamathe » 16 Apr 2020, 5:52pm

mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
mjr wrote:Then I ask a similar question to what I asked elsewhere: if you're not suggesting that is the case, why even mention it in this topic now? :mad:

Just chatting. Not every post in every thread is 100% addressing the OP's point raised (including in this thread) and just an observation I made.

Basically "Bantz!" is not a great justification for what seemed like horrible victim-blaming comments.

Good grief. No victim blaming, just highlighting potentially increase risk for people out there!. I am beyond staggered by your reaction. I find when all is quiet and I think there is nothing around I can become less attentive and notice wildlife, etc. But to be accused of victim blaming ... I am beyond words.

Ian