Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
roberts8
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby roberts8 » 17 May 2020, 8:19am

I too despair about some idiot drivers, hence I love cycling in Europe. I did get my elbow clipped leaving Calais, shouted, then realised it was a GB car. No surprise there. I find cycling solo attracts less attention and keep to quiet lanes and the bar end mirror gives me some warning of possible close passes and a quick wiggle and they give more room, sometimes.

De Sisti
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby De Sisti » 17 May 2020, 8:38am

PLodon wrote:I've cycled most of my adult life, not as a club cyclist or with a road bike, I've just always had a bike and ridden it, in ordinary, everyday clothes to run errands or just go for rides for the sheer joy of it. I also run regularly, 3 or 4 times a week, never been a member of a club or anything, just to keep fit and again because I enjoy it.

I January of this year, as I was approaching 55 (and wanting to maintain my general fitness) after much consideration and research I decided to sell my car (my wife also has a car so not too much of a hardship) and cycle 2 miles to my local station, get a train (10 miles) and cycle 2 miles to the hospital where I work. I bought a folding bike from Decathlon, again after a lot of research, which I have been really happy with and the, pre-lockdown, journey ny train was fine.

The only problem with the whole experience was some motorists who not only often didn't give way at juctions or leave enough space when overtaking but the level of verbal abuse I sometimes recieved, just for being on a bike, on a road and in front of them. Last week I needed a repeat prescription from my doctors surgery, approximately 5 miles from where I live, my wife was at work so I thought nothing of cycling there.

Part of my route is along an urban road which for some reason has a speed limit of 60 mph, there is an 18 inch marked area near the kerb full of broken glass and debris, which I presume may be someones idea of a "bike lane" but certainly not fit to cycle in. The roads were very quiet and I happily cycled along until a care slowed, swerved towards me and two young man delivered a torrent of abuse because I should move over and get out of their way.

I'm really getting fed up of the abuse, threatening ,in some cases life threatening, behaviour that we are expected to endure when we ride a bike. It's become acceptable in the media and it seems that if you want to kill someone and get away with it just crash into them when they are riding a bike and simply say the sun was in your eyes. What is it with the UK that this sort of hatred towards other human beings who just happen to ride a bike is not only permissable but seems acceptable as a norm? I'm seriously thinking about buying another car. :(

Easier to read now.
EDIT :: Thanks for that. Now edited into the original post :: Graham
Last edited by Graham on 17 May 2020, 9:08am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Thanks

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby PDQ Mobile » 17 May 2020, 8:51am

roberts8 wrote:I too despair about some idiot drivers, hence I love cycling in Europe. I did get my elbow clipped leaving Calais, shouted, then realised it was a GB car. No surprise there. I find cycling solo attracts less attention and keep to quiet lanes and the bar end mirror gives me some warning of possible close passes and a quick wiggle and they give more room, sometimes.


But why no surprise?
That is the question that intigues me.

What is/are the salient differences and causatives between the places.
Different insurance rules and liability law is mentioned up thread.
I am less covinviced.

I don't think we are necessarily less skilled as drivers overall either.
Our killed and seriously injured stats compare quite favourably across the whole spectrum.

This is a societal thing IMV.
A "get out of my way because you are weaker" mindset.
Instilled ( and installed!) by a Trumpian (and The Apprentice etc) type press and media.
Probably American influenced and possibly more pervasive in the no language barrier UK.
((This lack of language barrier does not apply to inarticulate Trump himself though. I have the greatest difficulty making any sense of all his utterances. :shock: ))

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al_yrpal
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby al_yrpal » 17 May 2020, 9:01am

I have never had such bad experiences a couple of closish passes in the last 12 months but that's all. I think this stupid behaviour is regional. Folk in cars here in Devon are careful and often very friendly and courteous, it was the same back in Oxfordshire

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

Stradageek
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Stradageek » 17 May 2020, 9:31am

Just to add to the debate; I used to commute across Northampton during rush hour and decided one week to count the number of 'abusive' incidents i.e. close passes (deliberate or otherwise) and verbals as a percentage of the total car interactions (passes etc.).

During this busy, stressy period I calculated the percentage of incidents at less that 1%. Whilst not ideal, I could cope with that.

Yesterday my wife and I were out on our (somewhat eccentric) Kettweisel recumbent trike tandem. My daughter accompanied us on a racing bike and chose to ride next to us and chat as the country lanes were fairly quiet. A number of cars ended up being delayed by our flotilla but NO ONE complained in any way.

We decided that two apparently disabled pensioners and their carer (which is what we must have looked like - but are not) are immune form the usual ire.

The moral, look or behave oddly enough to be perceived as a human rather than an anonymous 'cyclist' and even that 1% can become reformed.

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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 May 2020, 9:40am

Where might I get some dummy stabilisers for my upwrong?
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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rfryer
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby rfryer » 17 May 2020, 9:42am

al_yrpal wrote:I have never had such bad experiences a couple of closish passes in the last 12 months but that's all. I think this stupid behaviour is regional. Folk in cars here in Devon are careful and often very friendly and courteous, it was the same back in Oxfordshire

Al

I agree, I do a lot of cycling around Edinburgh and rural Cumbria, and haven't experienced anything like this. I'd have thought it was complete overreaction were it not for the number of posters in full agreement.

It goes to show how hard it is to debate what national guidelines for infrastructure should look like, when those of us in different areas can have such vastly different experience of cycling on the road.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby PDQ Mobile » 17 May 2020, 9:58am

Stradageek wrote:Just to add to the debate; I used to commute across Northampton during rush hour and decided one week to count the number of 'abusive' incidents i.e. close passes (deliberate or otherwise) and verbals as a percentage of the total car interactions (passes etc.).

During this busy, stressy period I calculated the percentage of incidents at less that 1%. Whilst not ideal, I could cope with that.

Yesterday my wife and I were out on our (somewhat eccentric) Kettweisel recumbent trike tandem. My daughter accompanied us on a racing bike and chose to ride next to us and chat as the country lanes were fairly quiet. A number of cars ended up being delayed by our flotilla but NO ONE complained in any way.

We decided that two apparently disabled pensioners and their carer (which is what we must have looked like - but are not) are immune form the usual ire.

The moral, look or behave oddly enough to be perceived as a human rather than an anonymous 'cyclist' and even that 1% can become reformed.

I agree that recumbents mostly get more space and consideration.
It is the unusual aspect I think.
Most drivers will be more cautious when things "do not compute".
More shouting from a certain youthful sector is often apparent, though not all is derogatory.

1% sounds like nothing to be happy about at all though.
In busy conditions thats a fair old few pulse raising incidents.

I prefer just the odd one every year.

In spite of likely regional differences within the UK (though super busy and fast Oxfordshire and the SE generally is not so great when I have passed through. Aldershot notably bad.) it was the difference between mainland Europe and (parts of?) the UK that interested me.
Cycling is held in a different regard in much of mainland Europe and perhaps more folk do it. That may be a factor?
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 17 May 2020, 10:07am, edited 2 times in total.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 17 May 2020, 10:02am

I invested in a Garmin cycle camera. Normally I can’t be bothered with videos from cycle cams, however this is some footage from my ride yesterday, which illustrates the points made in this thread quite nicely. I’ll apologise for the sudden sweary rant caused by one of the close passes in advance. But it shows how so many passes by the majority of motorists tend to be absolutely fine, but one or two idiots really need to learn what 3 feet looks like.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... v3vcCubHuU

Jdsk
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Jdsk » 17 May 2020, 10:12am

PDQ Mobile wrote:What is/are the salient differences and causatives between the places.
Different insurance rules and liability law is mentioned up thread.
I am less covinviced.

I don't think we are necessarily less skilled as drivers overall either.
Our killed and seriously injured stats compare quite favourably across the whole spectrum.

This is a societal thing IMV.
A "get out of my way because you are weaker" mindset.

Good to see the question asked in a way that might admit objective answers. Thank you.

I'm not convinced by regulatory differences either.

Yes, the UK"s figures for deaths and injuries to road users other than people who are walking and people are cycling are very good compared historically and geographically. (And we should be making major attempts to improve them further.) But are our figures for people who are walking and people who are cycling bad compared to those same modes in other similar countries, or only to compared to our performance for other modes?

I do suspect tribal psychology. And that that may well be connected to the fraction of people who are driving who also cycle at other times. Any data on that?

Should traffic density be in the list?

Jonathan

sjs
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby sjs » 17 May 2020, 10:32am

al_yrpal wrote:I have never had such bad experiences a couple of closish passes in the last 12 months but that's all. I think this stupid behaviour is regional. Folk in cars here in Devon are careful and often very friendly and courteous, it was the same back in Oxfordshire

Al


I commute in N Hertfordshire (when I'm allowed to go to work) and cycle for pleasure generally in the lanes of the same rough area. I get occasional close passes, usually I think through ignorance and/or stupidity not malice. I think the last time I had actual abuse was from a carful of youths in Bedford several years ago. So, I think it must be regional.

Mike Sales
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Mike Sales » 17 May 2020, 10:36am

PDQ Mobile wrote:Our killed and seriously injured stats compare quite favourably across the whole spectrum.



Not the whole spectrum, I'm afraid.
For instance, we kill child pedestrians at a higher rate than most of Western Europe.

There are eleven western European countries with lower child pedestrian death rates than the UK, and five of these have rates less than half that of the UK


http://www.pedestriansafety.org.uk/euro_child_pedestrian_safety.html

This is in spite of increasing restrictions on children's movements, as detailed in the book One False Move by Meyer Hillman John Whitelegg and John Adams.

http://www.psi.org.uk/site/publication_detail/904

This is the original book description from 1990.
Over the past two decades, child fatalities from road accidents in Britain have nearly halved, while the volume of traffic in Britain has nearly doubled. On the one hand, government argues that the roads have become ‘much safer’; on the other, it warns that they are extremely dangerous through campaigns with themes such as ‘One false move and you’re dead.’ This study was inspired by the inherent contradictions in government’s position. The analysis challenges the conventional orthodoxy that road accidents are a true measure of road safety.
In 1971, 80 per cent of seven- and eight-year-old children were allowed to go to school without adult supervision. By 1990, this figure fell to 9 per cent. Road accidents involving children have declined not because the roads have become safer but because children can no longer be exposed to the dangers they pose. Systematic surveys were carried out of how children and their parents behave in response to the risk of accidents in ten areas in Britain and Germany. Clear evidence was found that restrictions on the independent mobility of children were a direct result of the fears of parents. In addition, parents have been steadily increasing the amount of time they spend escorting their children. This further contributes to traffic congestion and increased danger from traffic.
The study proposes new measures of road safety. They would result in the restoration to children of much of the childhood freedom and choice that they are being denied by danger on the roads.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 17 May 2020, 10:55am, edited 2 times in total.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby al_yrpal » 17 May 2020, 10:37am

Marcus Aurelius wrote:I invested in a Garmin cycle camera. Normally I can’t be bothered with videos from cycle cams, however this is some footage from my ride yesterday, which illustrates the points made in this thread quite nicely. I’ll apologise for the sudden sweary rant caused by one of the close passes in advance. But it shows how so many passes by the majority of motorists tend to be absolutely fine, but one or two idiots really need to learn what 3 feet looks like.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... v3vcCubHuU


I hate cycling on roads like that and avoid it like the plague. Its narrow fast and busy. Even if taking the back roads is longer I will take them to avoid such an unpleasant stressful experience. Lately I have been cycling to all the market towns in this area, its all been pretty straight line on what can only be described as lanes. Motoring relations and friends always quote distances up to 50% more than my rides because they choose faster less direct routes.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

Jdsk
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Jdsk » 17 May 2020, 10:49am


reohn2
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby reohn2 » 17 May 2020, 11:03am

al_yrpal wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:I invested in a Garmin cycle camera. Normally I can’t be bothered with videos from cycle cams, however this is some footage from my ride yesterday, which illustrates the points made in this thread quite nicely. I’ll apologise for the sudden sweary rant caused by one of the close passes in advance. But it shows how so many passes by the majority of motorists tend to be absolutely fine, but one or two idiots really need to learn what 3 feet looks like.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... v3vcCubHuU


I hate cycling on roads like that and avoid it like the plague. Its narrow fast and busy. Even if taking the back roads is longer I will take them to avoid such an unpleasant stressful experience. Lately I have been cycling to all the market towns in this area, its all been pretty straight line on what can only be described as lanes. Motoring relations and friends always quote distances up to 50% more than my rides because they choose faster less direct routes.

Al

Whilst I agree with you,some of us cannot avoid such roads if only for short distances.
It's such roads,where I get the vast majority of problems,which for the most part are close passes from impatient drivers who can't regulate their speed to oncoming traffic to time their overtake but simply bully their way through in some cases saving thapemselves a nano second of time,and never moremtham 2 or 3 seconspds at most,I often wonder whether they drive the car or the car drives them!
What never fails to amaze me though are the number of drivers who will insanely overtake me on blind bends giving me room with their vehicle being partially or wholly over the centreline leaving little or no space for oncoming vehicles should they suddenly appear "out of nowhere" :?
I've come to the conclusion that such drivers feel they're entitled to perform such stupidly dangerous manoeuvres because they're overtaking a bicycle,the 'it's only a bike' syndrome :? which persists in the UK and not 'it's another human being' that should persist with only a modicum of brainwave activity :?
Loocally the sheer impatience of an element of drivers beggars belief at times in they attempt to drive from one TL to the next,what they must think as I then pass them in the line of traffic at the next red I can only guess :?
A minority of potentially very dangous idiots persists on UK roads aided by a total lack of effective policing.
Last edited by reohn2 on 17 May 2020, 11:09am, edited 2 times in total.
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