Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

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ndmbike
Posts: 60
Joined: 1 Oct 2011, 12:45pm

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby ndmbike » 22 May 2020, 9:09pm

< garbled quotation removed >

I am bewildered by this post and am planning on using it with my students, to explain how to communicate in a trustworthy manner (or not).

What does "actual exposure value to motor traffic to people on bikes" mean?

What do you mean by...
"massively lower"
I keep reminding my students to be specific and to use numbers, with a reputable source, and a reference.

"whilst I don't have any direct numbers this surely must completely offset the mltiple distance travelled per population head"
If you don't have evidence (direct numbers) then it is your opinion.
Don't pretend otherwise.

Have you been reading (or writing for) the Daily Wail?

Thanks so much for providing me with a real resource that young people can fact check and use to improve their critical skills.
Last edited by Graham on 23 May 2020, 8:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: garbled quotations are misleading

atlas_shrugged
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Joined: 8 Nov 2016, 7:50pm

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby atlas_shrugged » 23 May 2020, 8:12am

Of the countries that measure how many km cyclists travel this graphic is informative:

[img]
PPR796_cyclist_deaths.jpg
[/img]

The graph shows that cyclists in the UK are twice at risk as cyclists in the Netherlands, Denmark etc.
Image Attachments
PPR796_cyclist_deaths.jpg

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The utility cyclist
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Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby The utility cyclist » 23 May 2020, 7:54pm

ndmbike wrote:
< garbled quotation removed>


I am bewildered by this post and am planning on using it with my students, to explain how to communicate in a trustworthy manner (or not).

What does "actual exposure value to motor traffic to people on bikes" mean?

What do you mean by...
"massively lower"
I keep reminding my students to be specific and to use numbers, with a reputable source, and a reference.

"whilst I don't have any direct numbers this surely must completely offset the mltiple distance travelled per population head"
If you don't have evidence (direct numbers) then it is your opinion.
Don't pretend otherwise.

Have you been reading (or writing for) the Daily Wail?


Thanks so much for providing me with a real resource that young people can fact check and use to improve their critical skills.



Thanks for the multiple personal insults, duly noted :roll:

Dutch cyclists have a MASSIVELY less exposure value to motorvehicles, massive means a lot, governments don't give this value but it is very easy to understand this basic concept of exposure to a physical (and mental) threat of harm to people on bikes.
A lower exposure value to motor traffic should make those cyclists safer, a lot safer and yet in NL there are over 200 cycling deaths and has been on the increase year on year with declining cycling numbers, static at best, we know this to be true, go look at the actual data!

Governments don't put up numbers regarding exposure time to motor traffic by people on bikes but we know that it's much less for Dutch cyclists than it is for UK cyclists, or do you deny that Dutch cyclists use their segregated infra and deny that in the UK people on bikes do expose themselves to motor traffic because there's virtually no segregated and there is a lot more motor traffic doing a lot more miles alongside those UK cyclists?

If you don't have the ability to ascertain what is patently obvious then you have ZERO business talking about cycle safety to others from an education POV!
Last edited by Graham on 23 May 2020, 8:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: garbled quotation

mikeymo
Posts: 1469
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby mikeymo » 23 May 2020, 8:55pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
ndmbike wrote:
< garbled quotation removed>


I am bewildered by this post and am planning on using it with my students, to explain how to communicate in a trustworthy manner (or not).

What does "actual exposure value to motor traffic to people on bikes" mean?

What do you mean by...
"massively lower"
I keep reminding my students to be specific and to use numbers, with a reputable source, and a reference.

"whilst I don't have any direct numbers this surely must completely offset the mltiple distance travelled per population head"
If you don't have evidence (direct numbers) then it is your opinion.
Don't pretend otherwise.

Have you been reading (or writing for) the Daily Wail?


Thanks so much for providing me with a real resource that young people can fact check and use to improve their critical skills.



Thanks for the multiple personal insults, duly noted :roll:

Dutch cyclists have a MASSIVELY less exposure value to motorvehicles, massive means a lot, governments don't give this value but it is very easy to understand this basic concept of exposure to a physical (and mental) threat of harm to people on bikes.
A lower exposure value to motor traffic should make those cyclists safer, a lot safer and yet in NL there are over 200 cycling deaths and has been on the increase year on year with declining cycling numbers, static at best, we know this to be true, go look at the actual data!

Governments don't put up numbers regarding exposure time to motor traffic by people on bikes but we know that it's much less for Dutch cyclists than it is for UK cyclists, or do you deny that Dutch cyclists use their segregated infra and deny that in the UK people on bikes do expose themselves to motor traffic because there's virtually no segregated and there is a lot more motor traffic doing a lot more miles alongside those UK cyclists?

If you don't have the ability to ascertain what is patently obvious then you have ZERO business talking about cycle safety to others from an education POV!


Just because you feel insulted, doesn't mean you were.

To be honest, I too was struggling to understand you.

These forums frequently feature a demand to "go look at the data", which is really nothing more than a posh version of "just google it!!". I know it must be tiresome having to repeat the same things over and over again, but that's just part of trying to change things. So if you have "data", present them. Numbers, or it didn't happen.

The only "exposure value" I know about is this, which probably isn't what you mean:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value

mikeymo
Posts: 1469
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby mikeymo » 23 May 2020, 8:59pm

atlas_shrugged wrote:Of the countries that measure how many km cyclists travel this graphic is informative:

[img]PPR796_cyclist_deaths.jpg[/img]

The graph shows that cyclists in the UK are twice at risk as cyclists in the Netherlands, Denmark etc.


Yes, terrible isn't it? 77% more than the Netherlands, to be accurate.

PLodon
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Joined: 16 May 2020, 11:40am
Location: S.E. Kent

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby PLodon » 24 May 2020, 10:29am

After much reflection I've decided I'm not going to get another car, I'm going to carry on doing what I want to do and that involves riding a bicycle as part of my daily transport. I will also endeavour to remain calm and considerate of others whilst doing so, as that is also important to me. I do believe that this issue is not just about being able to cycle safely, it's about being a member of a "civilised" society and that's important to me too. :)
Still plodding on.... :D

Cyril Haearn
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Location: Leafy suburbia

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 May 2020, 10:33am

+1
I do not have a motor vehicle either, I manage very well without
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Oldjohnw » 24 May 2020, 10:37am

I must say i've never had abuse as a cyclist from a motorist. I've seen bad and/or discourteous, clueless and dangerous driving (also witnessed as a motorist) but I've not received abuse.

I've not sworn at, argued with or gestured to a driver either.
John

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Mike Sales » 24 May 2020, 10:40am

Oldjohnw wrote:I must say i've never had abuse as a cyclist from a motorist. I've seen bad and/or discourteous, clueless and dangerous driving (also witnessed as a motorist) but I've not received abuse.



I have heard unintelligible, doppler effected, shouts from the open windows of passing cars.

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tykeboy2003
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Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby tykeboy2003 » 24 May 2020, 12:26pm

I had a conversation with a driver the other day, he'd close-passed me in the face of oncoming traffic on a not very wide road. He was stopped at the lights about 20 yards ahead and his passenger window was slightly open so I asked him politely if he would give more room to cyclists. He tried to convince me that he'd given me 2 metres and I pointed out to him that it was significantly less than 1 metre and I could easily have reached out and touched the car. He accepted this and apologised. A very pleasant end to what could have been quite nasty.

rmurphy195
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Location: South Birmingham

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby rmurphy195 » 7 Jun 2020, 8:49pm

If you do have a conversation with a driver, end up by saying something like "have a nice day" - makes you feel a whole lot better I've found!
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby kwackers » 7 Jun 2020, 9:16pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I must say i've never had abuse as a cyclist from a motorist. I've seen bad and/or discourteous, clueless and dangerous driving (also witnessed as a motorist) but I've not received abuse.

I've not sworn at, argued with or gestured to a driver either.

Do you ride around town during rush hour?

Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Oldjohnw » 8 Jun 2020, 4:30am

kwackers wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I must say i've never had abuse as a cyclist from a motorist. I've seen bad and/or discourteous, clueless and dangerous driving (also witnessed as a motorist) but I've not received abuse.

I've not sworn at, argued with or gestured to a driver either.

Do you ride around town during rush hour?



I do but rush hour barely exists here. I am not saying others don't experience abuse, just that I haven't.
John

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby kwackers » 8 Jun 2020, 7:20am

Oldjohnw wrote:I do but rush hour barely exists here. I am not saying others don't experience abuse, just that I haven't.

Abuse is a bit of an odd thing - as in what constitutes it?

I've had inaudible stuff shouted occasionally - they could be shouting "nice buttocks", I don't know.

In terms of actual verbal abuse tbh it doesn't happen that often as a spontaneous thing - at least that I'm aware of. Possibly once every several thousand miles??
If you include driving that's deliberately aggressive and intended to intimidate then perhaps once every few weeks, I think I'd class those as abuse.
Throw in close passes that were entirely avoidable then abuse or ignorance? Who can say, but pretty much daily.

I don't include where I have a word with someone who tried to kill me with crap driving - because tbh with rare exceptions nobody ever responds well to that.

As context I was commuting around 40 miles a day along some pretty busy roads.

Also; I do wear earplugs when commuting so tbh anything could be happening around me. I find they reduce stress significantly.
And when not commuting I pick and choose my routes thus avoiding any potential conflict hot spots.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Getting fed up with abuse etc from some motorists.

Postby Oldjohnw » 8 Jun 2020, 7:43am

I have the good fortune of not commuting and not living within 60 miles of any city or even really large town.
John