Speed and the fear of falling off

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Cyril Haearn » 1 Jun 2020, 12:39pm

Recommended only? May one go faster? I should keep inside the maximum

Seems crazy, if true, that maximum speed limits do not apply to cyclists
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peetee
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby peetee » 1 Jun 2020, 12:51pm

mikeymo wrote:There are many warning signs coming down that hill:

Gradient, engage low gear, skid risk, farm traffic, right hand bend with side road, dual to single carriageway.

Image

And a 25 mph maximum speed.

I know speed limits don't, legally, apply to cyclists. But maybe all that signage is a bit of a clue, eh?



IIRC about 40 years ago that hill was bare of trees. How strange that they let them grow where they would block the view of cars slowing or stopped to turn right.
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whoof
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby whoof » 1 Jun 2020, 12:52pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Recommended only? May one go faster? I should keep inside the maximum

Seems crazy, if true, that maximum speed limits do not apply to cyclists

The law and speed limits relate to motor vehicles as they are required to have speedometers whereas bicycles are not. However if you were to exceed the speed limit on a bike you could be charged with careless cycling.
One may choose the defence that as you didn't have means of measuring your speed you were unaware. As someone on here has pointed out try driving over the drink drive limit and using a defence of but i didn't have a device to measure the alcohol content in my blood or breath so i can't be at fault.

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foxyrider
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby foxyrider » 1 Jun 2020, 1:15pm

Most of my recorded high speeds i've been surprised by, i've finished a ride and found a top speed nudging 60kph on a stretch when i was just enjoying the view. I was never that gung ho even in my yoof which often cost me in road races, if anything i'm more likely to give it some now but that may depend on my bike confidence. I'm certainly more cautious on my current regular ride than on my carbon racey thing, i've had that to 98kph without being concerned about what it'll do (on a closed road, if there was any chance of traffic i wouldn't have been going anywhere close to that.)

I fear falling off all the time, we all should, regardless of the speed we are riding at, speed isn't the killer, hitting things at speed is the killer. Its when you think about it too much that fear itself becomes an issue, the what if's, what if i puncture, what if the forks snapped and so on, can soon have you riding at 10kph on the pavement.

Fear or rather the adrenaline it produces, helps to focus your reactions but as soon as you hit the 'high' you need to metaphorically step back, if you can control it, and a lot of people can't, you can get through those turns and hit the high speeds and survive, the problem comes when you get over confident whether from inexperience or from enthusiasm, the adrenaline can tip you over the edge of your and the bikes abilities. Add in confidence 'boosters' like disc brakes and crash helmets and you will inevitably have more accidents, we even see that in the pro ranks.

Respect speed, control your fears which will allow you to control speed and respect your fears.
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Nigel
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Nigel » 1 Jun 2020, 1:31pm

mikeymo wrote:There are many warning signs coming down that hill:

Gradient, engage low gear, skid risk, farm traffic, right hand bend with side road, dual to single carriageway.

Image

And a 25 mph maximum speed.

I know speed limits don't, legally, apply to cyclists. But maybe all that signage is a bit of a clue, eh?



There is a sign, its a warning sign of a bend, with a suggestion (advice) about speed. The suggested speed doesn't apply legally to motor vehicles either.
Speed limit signs have an arrangement of a white circle, red ring on outside, black writing in middle. There's a clear visual difference between advice and limit signs. From the pictures posted, I'd say its a national speed limit, 70mph for cars on dual carriageway, reducing to 60mph when one reaches the single carriageway indicated by the sign on the right.

I agree that any road user ought to pay heed to those signs and adjust their speed on the hill into the bend .


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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Cyril Haearn » 1 Jun 2020, 2:08pm

What on earth is the legal purpose of advisory speed signs?
..
I always heed them, I am quite scared of sharp corners too
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 1 Jun 2020, 2:35pm

tatanab wrote:
mikeymo wrote:And a 25 mph maximum speed.

I know speed limits don't, legally, apply to cyclists. But maybe all that signage is a bit of a clue, eh?
That is not a speed limit. It is an information sign showing a recommended maximum speed.


Yes, apologies for the ambiguity of my post. That was why I used the words "25 mph maximum speed." in the first paragraph. And why in the first sentence of my second paragraph I said "I know speed limits don't, legally, apply to cyclists." I didn't say it is a speed limit. But I understand that you may have inferred from my second paragraph that I was saying it was. I'm sorry.
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mikeymo
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 1 Jun 2020, 2:53pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Seems crazy, if true, that maximum speed limits do not apply to cyclists


I'm fairly sure that actual legal speed limits, the ones in red circles, apply only to motorised vehicles. Though no doubt a quick search of this forums will find the truth. So AFAIK cyclists can go faster than the posted speed limit. It's not something that I concern myself about too much, as I hardly ever cycle anywhere I may break whatever speed limit applies.
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whoof
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby whoof » 1 Jun 2020, 2:54pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What on earth is the legal purpose of advisory speed signs?
..
I always heed them, I am quite scared of sharp corners too

There is no legal purpose as it isn't legal it's advisory. If you read the highway code most of it is advisory only the sections that have links below them to a law are legally required. The code says that when walking with children you should hold them firmly by the hand and position yourself between the child and the traffic. Reasonable advice but you are not going to be fined or even spoken to by a police officer if you walk down a pavement not holding you child's hand. There are advisory sections of the highway code that if you were to not follow these could be used to show you were driving or cycling without due care.

Peter F
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Peter F » 1 Jun 2020, 2:54pm

mikeymo wrote:There are many warning signs coming down that hill:

Gradient, engage low gear, skid risk, farm traffic, right hand bend with side road, dual to single carriageway.

Image

And a 25 mph maximum speed.

I know speed limits don't, legally, apply to cyclists. But maybe all that signage is a bit of a clue, eh?


Very true, I'll be honest, I've never really noticed that sign before as a cyclist, but see it in the car all the time.

That U turn opportunity and the Suzuki would be suicidal for the driver. Next time I pass I'll see if that is still open. There is no way the driver can see if the road is clear when he pulls out, as it is on a bend obscured by a barrier and trees. Doing a U turn there will end up killing someone.

There are a lot of hills where I am very cautious, due to sheep in the roads, blind bends etc but this one has always felt quite safe, until yesterday. But then I didn't think about the potential for a car to be doing a U turn there.

Peter F
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Peter F » 1 Jun 2020, 3:02pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Ate least as relevant is that to hit a cat's eye you weren't sticking to a lane, and with that junction coming up I'd really want to be in lane 1.

The risks on a bent trike are somewhat different, and I'd be happy doing 40+ down that road from the looks of it, but I'd be in the middle of lane 1, not near a cat's eye.


The road was clear so I was attempting to straighten out the bend using both lanes. I normally stick to lane 1. On reflection not clever.

mikeymo
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 1 Jun 2020, 3:05pm

Peter F wrote:
mikeymo wrote:There are many warning signs coming down that hill:

Gradient, engage low gear, skid risk, farm traffic, right hand bend with side road, dual to single carriageway.

Image

And a 25 mph maximum speed.

I know speed limits don't, legally, apply to cyclists. But maybe all that signage is a bit of a clue, eh?


Very true, I'll be honest, I've never really noticed that sign before as a cyclist, but see it in the car all the time.

That U turn opportunity and the Suzuki would be suicidal for the driver. Next time I pass I'll see if that is still open. There is no way the driver can see if the road is clear when he pulls out, as it is on a bend obscured by a barrier and trees. Doing a U turn there will end up killing someone.

There are a lot of hills where I am very cautious, due to sheep in the roads, blind bends etc but this one has always felt quite safe, until yesterday. But then I didn't think about the potential for a car to be doing a U turn there.


See, I've just saved your life!! ;-)

Interesting to hear your perspective (almost literally!) as somebody who knows the road. If it's very quiet, you could even cycle/drive into the gap, and see what sight lines are like. Then back out and carry on up the hill.

I suspect that the opening is mainly, or perhaps entirely, for farm traffic to get out of and into that side road. Hence the tractor warning sign. So as well as Suzukis doing U-turns, watch out for tractors turning right onto the main road. A tractor with a trailer could be really difficult, long and slow moving. Edit: Thinking about it, a tractor with a trailer turning right off the main road would be worse, as the trailer would probably be blocking your road if the driver was waiting for a gap in traffic. At that point - "Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear", becomes very very relevant.

I suppose this is the whole point about "accidents". It's not something anybody wants to happen, and sometimes it is just an unforeseen, and maybe unforeseeable, set of circumstances.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Cyril Haearn » 1 Jun 2020, 3:15pm

Turning across ones path is bad enough, if there is not space for that the ***s just do seven-point turns

Cycling, driving, walking, one should go at such a speed that one can stop within less than half the distance one can see to be clear
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pwa
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby pwa » 1 Jun 2020, 3:21pm

I regard myself as a cautious descender, but it is relative and I leave my wife behind when I get a good fast descent to play with. The maximum speed I will do is probably about 45mph, because I feel that at that speed the bike begins to feel less under my control if something goes wrong. It only takes a sheep or a dog to appear in the road and all the safety margins are gone. And I go into blind bends anticipating the stationary tractor that could be around that corner. But if I find myself on a bit of well surfaced road where I can see there are no hazards for a good distance ahead, I will let the bike get some speed up. Not to the point where I can't pick a good line and judge the braking so as to avoid hitting a cat's eye.

Hitting a cat's eye suggests badly misjudging a corner, misreading the line and braking insufficiently or too late. Dealing with corners is a subject in itself.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6461213 ... 6?hl=en-GB
I descended this hill last week in a sober and controlled way. I took the bend in the pic at a low speed (maybe 20mph or something in that order) but I allowed the bike to get up to maybe 40mph+ on the long straight that followed, which kept the brake surfaces cool and ready for when I would need them lower down. I didn't push it on any of the various bends on that descent because I am not a Tour de France rider and nobody gives me a trophy at the end of the stage.
Last edited by pwa on 1 Jun 2020, 3:27pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikeymo
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 1 Jun 2020, 3:25pm

Peter F wrote:There are a lot of hills where I am very cautious, due to sheep in the roads...


On our regular holiday venue I get this all the time:

Image

The thing is, they don't actually move out the way in any great hurry. I think they know that when the last ferry has gone there's hardly any traffic. Most of the locals seem to expect them and drive accordingly.
Last edited by mikeymo on 1 Jun 2020, 3:41pm, edited 1 time in total.
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