Speed and the fear of falling off

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mikeymo
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 1 Jun 2020, 7:32pm

whoof wrote:Sometimes what seems to be a reasonable speed to go into a corner can go wrong very quickly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hRM3bFXly ... =emb_title


I know nothing about cycle racing. Is it usual to have the cyclists and support cars so mixed up together like that?
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whoof
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby whoof » 1 Jun 2020, 8:02pm

mikeymo wrote:
whoof wrote:Sometimes what seems to be a reasonable speed to go into a corner can go wrong very quickly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hRM3bFXly ... =emb_title


I know nothing about cycle racing. Is it usual to have the cyclists and support cars so mixed up together like that?

Yes, when the race sets off there will be all the riders together and two cars per team in a long line behind them. If say five riders from different teams break away then when they a have a gap of about one minute each rider will have a team car come up behind them and therefore inbetween them and the bunch. If the bunch then start to catch them the cars will be pulled over to allow the bunch to pass when the gap falls to about thirty seconds

On a climb the cars will stay with the bunch and as riders get dropped they will fall back out of the bunch and then be passed by the cars which will be going the same speed as the top riders in the bunch. Some of the larger riders won't be the best climbers but are often fast descenders and will try and get back to the race convoy through the cars and into the bunch as they can then assist their team leader or in some cases will need to get back to a larger group as in a stage race there is a cut off time which if they are outside they will be eliminated from the race.

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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Cyril Haearn » 1 Jun 2020, 8:08pm

.. Cycle sport - a bizarre mixture of cycles and motor vehicles :?
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Grandad
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Grandad » 1 Jun 2020, 8:17pm

My best downhill experience was riding the Isle of Man TT circuit back in the days when they held a Cycling Week. Closed roads so able to use the full width of the road.

whoof
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby whoof » 1 Jun 2020, 8:22pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:.. Cycle sport - a bizarre mixture of cycles and motor vehicles :?

They tried to have the officials follow using trains and it didn't work out too well.

mikeymo
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 1 Jun 2020, 8:25pm

whoof wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
whoof wrote:Sometimes what seems to be a reasonable speed to go into a corner can go wrong very quickly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hRM3bFXly ... =emb_title


I know nothing about cycle racing. Is it usual to have the cyclists and support cars so mixed up together like that?

Yes, when the race sets off there will be all the riders together and two cars per team in a long line behind them. If say five riders from different teams break away then when they a have a gap of about one minute each rider will have a team car come up behind them and therefore inbetween them and the bunch. If the bunch then start to catch them the cars will be pulled over to allow the bunch to pass when the gap falls to about thirty seconds

On a climb the cars will stay with the bunch and as riders get dropped they will fall back out of the bunch and then be passed by the cars which will be going the same speed as the top riders in the bunch. Some of the larger riders won't be the best climbers but are often fast descenders and will try and get back to the race convoy through the cars and into the bunch as they can then assist their team leader or in some cases will need to get back to a larger group as in a stage race there is a cut off time which if they are outside they will be eliminated from the race.


Thanks. I'm not sure I quite understood that, but as I say, I know nothing about cycle sports. Just that on that video it looked like a dangerous mixture of bikes and cars, even before the crash. At least to my inexperienced eye.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby [XAP]Bob » 1 Jun 2020, 8:51pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Recommended only? May one go faster? I should keep inside the maximum

Seems crazy, if true, that maximum speed limits do not apply to cyclists



Why would it seem crazy?

The damage done by a cyclist is negligible compared with the driver of a tonne or more of metal who can trivially exceed the speed limit by a factor of 2 or more.

The cyclist also has an awareness of that risk that isn't possible when one is safely cocooned inside a modern vehicle.

Speet limits explicitly only apply to *motor* vehicles, which excludes pedal cycles, and e-bikes which are actually e-bikes rather than electric mopeds.

The sign here isn't even a limit - and who is advised to slow to 25? An articulated lorry, a tractor with a full trailer of hay bales? A motorcyclist, a Ferrari, a Mini Cooper... Under what weather conditions is 25 a suitable speed?

There is almost no point to them - I used to come round a slip road between motorways (no way on or off, the leftmost lane of one motorway took 270 degrees around the slip road and becomes the left lane of another) at 70, despite the "40" warning signs. The visibility was good and the curve not all that steep. I followed a colleague round there in his WRX (he actually did rally it at the weekends, although this was when it was very new) and we entered the slip road line astern.... He then accelerated... by the time I (at 70) had got round the 270 degree bend... I couldn't see him up road any more...

That 40 is, and always was, ridiculous. OTOH in the rain 40 might be absurdly fast.
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Postboxer
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Postboxer » 1 Jun 2020, 9:36pm

Brief interview about the crash at the Tour of Utah here, it seems the trouble started out of shot.

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/4260/mat ... it-the-car

Photo of the car.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/late ... tah-189038

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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Vorpal » 1 Jun 2020, 9:52pm

When I was younger, I was willing to go as fast as I felt I could control the bike, and enjoyed the speed. My brother and I overtook a car on a descent in Scotland, once.

I would never do that now, and although I get up to around 40 mph (I don't have a computer) on a well-known descent, I slow a lot for bends and junctions. I only go that fast where I can see far enough to say that it is (relatively) safe. There's a crash barrier part way down that hill that worries me a bit, because if I ever come off on that section, I'm likely to hit the barrier due to the slight curve & camber.

These days, 40 mph is about my maximum speed, and I only do that where I know the road well, and can see well ahead. Otherwise, I am rather more cautious.

The biggest issue is likely to be road conditions. I have come across mud and gravel on the road that I didn't necessarily expect to be there, especially on country lanes where tractors and farm vehicles sometimes leave crap on the road. So I basically cycle as if I expect that sort of thing all the time.
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Peter F
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Peter F » 2 Jun 2020, 7:00am

Interesting stuff guys. It's certainly given me some food for thought.

tim-b
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby tim-b » 2 Jun 2020, 7:21am

Hi
The biggest issue is likely to be road conditions. I have come across mud and gravel on the road that I didn't necessarily expect to be there, especially on country lanes where tractors and farm vehicles sometimes leave crap on the road. So I basically cycle as if I expect that sort of thing all the time.

This, and not forgetting the vehicle itself. Those things don't need a signed junction, a concealed gateway will do, hence the warning sign for farm traffic in the images ^^ YMMV
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tim-b
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby tim-b » 2 Jun 2020, 7:33am

Hi
Speed isn't in itself evidence of careless cycling. Speed in the absence of other complications is more likely to be furious riding of a carriage, Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (fine) or wanton and furious driving of a carriage if you injure someone else, Offences Against the Person Act 1861 (2 years in HMP)
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Greystoke
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Greystoke » 3 Jun 2020, 11:22am

In my youth we cycle toured round Scotland, no helmets, grass in the middle of the road and flat out racing each other down hills on fully laden touring bikes.
Somehow I've managed to survive and don't take risks like that anymore.
I think it's called maturity?

Peter F
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby Peter F » 3 Jun 2020, 12:11pm

Greystoke wrote:I think it's called maturity?


When I first came across this forum I had no idea it would be such a hotbed for veiled insults :lol:

mikeymo
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Re: Speed and the fear of falling off

Postby mikeymo » 3 Jun 2020, 12:50pm

Peter F wrote:
Greystoke wrote:I think it's called maturity?


When I first came across this forum I had no idea it would be such a hotbed for veiled insults :lol:


You'll get used to it.
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