Disgraceful driving!

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
mikeymo
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jun 2020, 3:10pm

atlas_shrugged wrote:In addition we have 3rd party insurance cover charged to fuel.


Please explain how this would be implemented, and why you think it would be beneficial.
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Peter F
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Peter F » 2 Jun 2020, 3:13pm

Postboxer wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52834471

Traffic down 70%, accidents down 10%

Seems all the bad drivers still had somewhere to be. Maybe they were all testing their eyesight.

They were using the roads like their personal race track.

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mjr
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby mjr » 2 Jun 2020, 7:55pm

Peter F wrote:I am stating it as fact because it is. An autonomous car is one that doesn't require a driver and they don't yet exist. Once they do they will eliminate all accidents caused by human error, so the majority of them.

Except the programmer errors!

Plus there's also the problem of deliberate subversion by programmers à la Volkswagen Emissions Test Cheat Mode. Won't manufacturers want to be able to sell their autonomous car as being programmed to complete a journey typically x% faster than a competitor? So there'll be a temptation to start literally cutting corners that will be very difficult to resist.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 2 Jun 2020, 7:58pm

Oh no, an 'intelligent' vehicle could save time by overtaking on a blind bend if it can see that nothing is coming :?
You are probably right mjr, they will be marketed for speed, -99
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RH20
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby RH20 » 2 Jun 2020, 8:28pm

Bad drivers are another symptom of today’s nasty society. The media are forever putting one section of society agains another, young against old, workers against unemployed, rich against poor. Everyone is fair game, no one is responsible for their actions. “I only did it for a laugh mate.” The advent of autonomous cars will probably not stop moronic actions, cyclist ahead, wind down the window, throw something at cyclist. Nothing will change until more severe penalties are pronounced on offenders, but this is not going to happen. There is a very large legal economy that is dependant on wrong doers, Mr Plod, solicitors, court staff, social workers, Probation staff etc. People who behave in a responsible manner don’t support these people and as such are of no consequence.
All we can do is keep cycling and hope we return safely from our ride, sad but I can’t see anything changing.

Pennine pedaller
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Pennine pedaller » 2 Jun 2020, 10:16pm

reohn2 wrote:There are those who enjoy antagonising cyclists not usually to the degree of the OP granted but it's obvious to anyone who rides a bike,it's become the norm in a land where policing is practically extinct.

PP
I hope you friend mends well and gets back on the bike otherwise the morons win.

Sadly this might be the one that stops him riding.He had a hit and run a couple of years ago but that one wasn’t quite so serious.It’s early days but at this time his head is telling him he’s done.He is in a lot of pain and full of drugs so he might feel differently in a few weeks.There is the possibility of course that he may not physically be able to ride again even if he gets over it mentally.I think this has genuinely scared him.
If this was,as suspected,a deliberate attack then the individual in question is clearly a very dangerous person to be driving about.
This has been on local BBC and in local press plus Cycling weekly/Road CCs social media pages and many local cycling clubs have posted the Police appeal on their social media pages..Someone must know the perpetrator who will surely have new damage to his/her car.

reohn2
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jun 2020, 11:13pm

Pennine pedaller wrote:
reohn2 wrote:There are those who enjoy antagonising cyclists not usually to the degree of the OP granted but it's obvious to anyone who rides a bike,it's become the norm in a land where policing is practically extinct.

PP
I hope you friend mends well and gets back on the bike otherwise the morons win.

Sadly this might be the one that stops him riding.He had a hit and run a couple of years ago but that one wasn’t quite so serious.It’s early days but at this time his head is telling him he’s done.He is in a lot of pain and full of drugs so he might feel differently in a few weeks.There is the possibility of course that he may not physically be able to ride again even if he gets over it mentally.I think this has genuinely scared him.
If this was,as suspected,a deliberate attack then the individual in question is clearly a very dangerous person to be driving about.
This has been on local BBC and in local press plus Cycling weekly/Road CCs social media pages and many local cycling clubs have posted the Police appeal on their social media pages..Someone must know the perpetrator who will surely have new damage to his/her car.

I can only say I'm sorry for him and the circumstances as you say it hangs in the balance whether he will ride again.
As for the driver one wonders what goes through the mind of such maniacs,I've never been knocked off but have some near misses including a couple of nutters which ended in fisticuffs where I came best off,but either incident could've been very different.
The point is though it shouldn't come to this kind thing.
It's a well known fact thae the biggest deterrent to any criminal is getting caught but sadly due to the total lack of practically any effective policing criminals do what they do,in the full knowledge that there's very little chance of being caught and that's the whole problem IMHO.
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Peter F
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Peter F » 3 Jun 2020, 9:57am

mjr wrote:
Peter F wrote:I am stating it as fact because it is. An autonomous car is one that doesn't require a driver and they don't yet exist. Once they do they will eliminate all accidents caused by human error, so the majority of them.

Except the programmer errors!

Plus there's also the problem of deliberate subversion by programmers à la Volkswagen Emissions Test Cheat Mode. Won't manufacturers want to be able to sell their autonomous car as being programmed to complete a journey typically x% faster than a competitor? So there'll be a temptation to start literally cutting corners that will be very difficult to resist.


Errr...no. Aside from the fact that currently journey time is not related to car performance in any way, once you remove the need to drive the performance aspect will disappear.
The VW scandal is a different issue, they imagined they'd never be caught, however autonomous cars racing round and crashing because of it would be pretty easy to spot.

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Cugel
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Cugel » 3 Jun 2020, 11:20am

reohn2 wrote: (snip)
As for the driver one wonders what goes through the mind of such maniacs.....
The point is though it shouldn't come to this kind thing.
It's a well known fact that the biggest deterrent to any criminal is getting caught but sadly due to the total lack of practically any effective policing criminals do what they do,in the full knowledge that there's very little chance of being caught and that's the whole problem IMHO.


If this is true - that everyone is a potential criminal with only the threat of punishment a deterrent - then we're all doomed. Happily it isn't true, as you may realise if you examine your own behaviours, attitudes and their mental drivers.

Personally I feel that a society remains civil largely because convincing examples of civility predominate at many levels, in many domains .... especially within those domains that are famous, popular, dominant, authoritative or otherwise serve as significant prompts to others.

Here is the real problem, then. The dominant and famous amongst us at present are often themselves ill-behaved, loutish, intolerant and confrontational. They tend also to the selfish, exploitative and spoilt. That's the root cause of the gradual crumbling of a civil society.

There are those who work against this crumble, by word and deed. But the advent of the current Tory, with all it's bad old C19th habits of mind and deed, is a set-back. The continuing and worsening guttersnipe behaviour of the mass media is another.

Policing will always be necessary. In a more civil society both the policing and the wider criminal justice system can themselves be more civilised. As you know, we have at present a police force rather too inclined to move Stasi-ward given the opportunity (which they are) and a criminal justice system which is becoming more and more claptrap yet more and more vicious to those it does ensnare. There seems also to be a set of unwritten laws which favour certain dominant groups such as the motorist, the very well-off, those with political power and various business or finance fellows gleefully charging down loophole avenue.

Civility is a precious thing. We are chucking it away, bit by bit, as the yob & hooray henry become more & more fashionable models for we small-folk to admire and emulate in our myriad small ways.

Cugel

fastpedaller
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby fastpedaller » 3 Jun 2020, 11:44am

here's an example of autonomous braking (suplemented by the 'driver' becoming aware and also braking!) Hmm... as the article says, it should be one of the simpler actions able to by automated, the object wasn't even moving.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/wat ... d=msedgntp

Jdsk
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Jdsk » 3 Jun 2020, 11:50am

The facts of that case aren't yet known.

And it isn't possible to assess the net effects on safety of anything from anecdotes. Cycling advocates should know this better than anyone: irrational fear from overreported incidents deters a lot of people from cycling. But if you look at the overall benefits to health rather than the anecdotes a very different picture emerges.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 3 Jun 2020, 11:52am, edited 1 time in total.

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mjr
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby mjr » 3 Jun 2020, 11:52am

Peter F wrote:Errr...no. Aside from the fact that currently journey time is not related to car performance in any way, once you remove the need to drive the performance aspect will disappear.

Not performance in one sense but I think journey time will still be a selling point. If not, why do people pay extra to take a regional express train instead of the semi-fast? Between two cities near me, both are Electrostar trains so it's not comfort or onboard facilities explaining it.
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Jdsk
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Jdsk » 3 Jun 2020, 11:57am

Peter F wrote:Aside from the fact that currently journey time is not related to car performance in any way, once you remove the need to drive the performance aspect will disappear.

Mostly agree, but there are several different markets lumped together in "cars". There will still be a "performance" segment.

And it''s worth looking at the current codes of conduct for advertising:
https://www.asa.org.uk/codes-and-rulings/advertising-codes.html

Which include, for example:
"Marketers must not make speed or acceleration the main message of their marketing communications. Marketing communications may give general information about a vehicle's performance, such as acceleration and mid-range statistics, braking power, road-holding and top speed."
https://www.asa.org.uk/type/non_broadcast/code_section/19.html

Jonathan

reohn2
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby reohn2 » 3 Jun 2020, 12:00pm

Cugel wrote:
..........Civility is a precious thing. We are chucking it away, bit by bit, as the yob & hooray henry become more & more fashionable models for we small-folk to admire and emulate in our myriad small ways.

Cugel

I won't comment on the psychology part of your post interesting as it might be.

The quoted part I agree with,without a police presence will to enforce the law and a court system willing to hand down the appropriate sentencing that fits the crime we as a society are sunk,which is what I'm witnessing presently.

A decline of the above has led to a free for all where the idiots and madwo/men are having the time of there lives with to many of those who can afford slick lawyer and barristers getting away literally with,if not murder then manslaughter.
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Peter F
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Re: Disgraceful driving!

Postby Peter F » 3 Jun 2020, 12:05pm

Jdsk wrote:
Peter F wrote:Aside from the fact that currently journey time is not related to car performance in any way, once you remove the need to drive the performance aspect will disappear.

Mostly agree, but there are several different markets lumped together in "cars". There will still be a "performance" segment.


Autonomous cars will be programmed to not exceed speed limits, although speed limits may increase. The performance segment will die altogether or be limited to track only cars. It will be very easy to spot any cars on the road breaking speed limits as they will all be communicating with each other and tracking speed, position etc and you can be sure location will be tracked by GPS.
Essentially autonomous cars will be the nail in the coffin of driving enthusiasts, at least on the road.
Last edited by Peter F on 3 Jun 2020, 12:08pm, edited 1 time in total.