Canal towpath petition

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reohn2
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jul 2020, 1:08pm

mercalia wrote:The canals should be filled in, would make great cycle and pedestrian paths then. With simple camp sites at various intervals. How many boats are there any way on them & the ones I see are just moored? They only move around due to regulations about limits on staying in one place? They were once for industrial purposes that long since ended? ( I'll now wait for the hate mail) The Grand Union would be a great way to get from London to the North, a new M1 for cycles?

You aren't a selfish chap are you?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Jul 2020, 1:13pm

millimole wrote:There is also the technical, but not unimportant point that most towpaths are not public rights of way - they are permissive paths. The land is generally owned by The Canal & River Trust who can close the path at any time without warning, although they generally do post notices of planned closure.
In some places - as on my local towpath - ownership is complex, changing between local authority & CRT a couple of times within the space of around 100 metres.
There are some sections where the towpath is a Right of Way, locally we have a Public Footpath running over a set of canal lock gates. Where towpaths are part of the NCN this has been done with the agreement of the landowner.

IN many parts of the country the land /below/ the towpath is leased for fibre-optic cable lines adding a further layer of complexity.

The government (DEFRA) grant to CRT includes the mandate to make towpaths 'open to all', and this is generally felt to mean that no one group should have priority over another.
Don't underestimate the lobby power of narrow boat owners, the hire boat industry, and canal advocacy groups.

The asset value of their property is c.75bn, so not insignificant.

PLodon
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby PLodon » 25 Jul 2020, 3:14pm

Signed with pleasure, if you don't ask, you don't get. :)
Still plodding on.... :D

PaulaT
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby PaulaT » 25 Jul 2020, 4:46pm

There are something like 262,000 miles of road in the UK. A few 1000 miles of that are motorways and heavily-trafficked dual carriageway but we have over 100x more road to cycle on than there is canal (2,200 miles). Many residential boaters use bikes to get to shops etc and I'm sure they appreciate upgraded surfaces as much as we do and the tow paths around Birmingham and the Black Country are popular with cyclists. But there needs to be a balanced approach and the OPs petition is nothing but a selfish land-grab.

rareposter
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby rareposter » 25 Jul 2020, 5:31pm

mercalia wrote:The canals should be filled in, would make great cycle and pedestrian paths then. With simple camp sites at various intervals. How many boats are there any way on them & the ones I see are just moored? They only move around due to regulations about limits on staying in one place? They were once for industrial purposes that long since ended? ( I'll now wait for the hate mail) The Grand Union would be a great way to get from London to the North, a new M1 for cycles?


The environmental and historical costs would be catastrophic. Plus the canal is a way of life for hundreds of thousands of people who live and work on it.

That's an even worse idea than the original petition which is poorly thought out with no concept of the logistics involved.

Canals are often incredibly expensive to work on because the access is so restricted - you can't get trucks or heavy mechanical gear there easily at all and it's also quite a specific skillset. Also closing a towpath for a long period of time will often close the whole canal and you need to factor that into boat and people movements.

So no, I won't be signing it, it's totally impractical on many levels.

reohn2
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jul 2020, 6:12pm

rareposter wrote:...... I won't be signing it, it's totally impractical on many levels.

It's practical in parts,there are already towpaths close to town centres where the towpaths are well used and already surfaced with tarmac,concrete or even block paved.
A decent wide towpath has so many positive uses for everyone.
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby tykeboy2003 » 25 Jul 2020, 7:04pm

PLodon wrote:Signed with pleasure, if you don't ask, you don't get. :)


Thanks mate. I don't hold much hope of it getting anywhere though.

Pete Owens
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby Pete Owens » 25 Jul 2020, 8:53pm

tykeboy2003 wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:And 2m is not wide enough for a 2-way route shared with pedestrians.


The Trent and Mersey canal near me is part of NCN route 6 (Swarkestone near Derby) there is no tarmac and the gravel bit is barely 12" wide yet this is a 2-way cycle route with lots of pedestrians in summer). There is plenty of room there to widen the path to 2m which I think would be more than enough. Anything more than a couple of metres would invite misuse and spoil the tranquility of the canal.


And we wonder why the standard of cycle facilities in the country is so abysmal when people are actively campaining for c**p.

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mjr
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby mjr » 25 Jul 2020, 11:17pm

Pete Owens wrote:
tykeboy2003 wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:And 2m is not wide enough for a 2-way route shared with pedestrians.


The Trent and Mersey canal near me is part of NCN route 6 (Swarkestone near Derby) there is no tarmac and the gravel bit is barely 12" wide yet this is a 2-way cycle route with lots of pedestrians in summer). There is plenty of room there to widen the path to 2m which I think would be more than enough. Anything more than a couple of metres would invite misuse and spoil the tranquility of the canal.


And we wonder why the standard of cycle facilities in the country is so abysmal when people are actively campaining for c**p.

They're still a step up from the people actively campaigning against all improvements!
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irc
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby irc » 25 Jul 2020, 11:18pm

Pete Owens wrote:And 2m is not wide enough for a 2-way route shared with pedestrians.


Not ideal but it works in Glasgow. And it was tarmacced without affecting boat movements.

Screen-Shot-2018-04-09-at-143819.png

.With a bit of give and take by different users it works fine. Used to be a compressed ash surface which was fine in the dry but in some cold wet conditions went to unrideable mush. Much better now.

irc
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby irc » 25 Jul 2020, 11:27pm

Bonefishblues wrote:On the basis that there are many more walkers, cyclists and other non-motorised perambulators than boatists, would not a better solution be to fill in the canals and create a network of wide, safe pathways across the country?

Yours, a laterally, but not entirely seriously thought out plan.


Well part of the M8 motorway in Glasgow was built on the line of the Monkands canal. So rather than half a dozen boats it carries thousands of cars vans and HGVs through the city making surface streets quiet and cycle friendly. A great repurposing.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby Cyril Haearn » 26 Jul 2020, 6:13am

I should not fancy cycling or walking on that path in Glasgow, right next to the water with no guardrail
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reohn2
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2020, 9:38am

irc wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:On the basis that there are many more walkers, cyclists and other non-motorised perambulators than boatists, would not a better solution be to fill in the canals and create a network of wide, safe pathways across the country?

Yours, a laterally, but not entirely seriously thought out plan.


Well part of the M8 motorway in Glasgow was built on the line of the Monkands canal. So rather than half a dozen boats it carries thousands of cars vans and HGVs through the city making surface streets quiet and cycle friendly. A great repurposing.

There may be the odd canal unused,unconnected to the canal network that no one would complain about and indeed be better off for all concerned if it were filled in and used for something else,but they're probably far and few between.
Overall the canal network is a great leisure and wildlife asset for everyone to enjoy that would benefit from well surfaced(not necessarily all tarmac)towpaths,wide enough for multiuse(2m is wide enough IMO but wider where possible on the busier sections) ie; walking,cycling and wheelchair users.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby Cyril Haearn » 26 Jul 2020, 9:45am

I imagine there are lots of derelict canals that could be restored, between Ledbury and Gloucester for example, not much left of that :?
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reohn2
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Re: Canal towpath petition

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2020, 10:03am

PaulaT wrote:There are something like 262,000 miles of road in the UK. A few 1000 miles of that are motorways and heavily-trafficked dual carriageway but we have over 100x more road to cycle on than there is canal (2,200 miles). Many residential boaters use bikes to get to shops etc and I'm sure they appreciate upgraded surfaces as much as we do and the tow paths around Birmingham and the Black Country are popular with cyclists. But there needs to be a balanced approach and the OPs petition is nothing but a selfish land-grab.

I don't see what you mean by a 'land grab' though I don't agree with totally tarmacing the whole network.
TBH IMO tarmac on towpaths creates it's own problems if not laid properly escecially where there are mature trees and hedges with roots under the surface.
Where towpaths see heavy used year round a good level and solid surface is a necessity for all users IMO,other areas needn't be as perfect but still need to be level and well maintained including the trees and hedges alongside,to provide good leisure facilities that people want to use.

The country is currently facing yet another recession where many people will be out of work,at such times as these we either invest in our infrastructure,which includes our leisure factilities such as canal towpaths,or we make the same mistake again by yet another unproductive austerity plan.
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