Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

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reohn2
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2020, 8:56am

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:.......We can all blame those further down the hierarchy but who's right?..........


The the problem is that there is a 'hierachy'. Instead of all being equals that treat each other with respect.

PS,we're agreeing again :wink:

Aren't we describing the human condition more generally, and their mode of travel is yet one more way in which they seek, consciously or unconsciously, to segregate and differentiate themselves from each other?

Yep,it's taught and even encouraged by some but needn't be.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Cyril Haearn » 26 Jul 2020, 9:00am

There are parallels, she who obeys the rules is not normal, ignoring the rules is commoner, -1
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Jdsk
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Jdsk » 26 Jul 2020, 10:07am

Bonefishblues wrote:Aren't we describing the human condition more generally, and their mode of travel is yet one more way in which they seek, consciously or unconsciously, to segregate and differentiate themselves from each other?

Yes. But that effect can be overcome.

The best book that I've ever read on this is Pinker's "The Better Angels... "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature

Ostensibly about violence but that's closely related to similar behaviour that stops short.

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sjs
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby sjs » 26 Jul 2020, 11:38am

This thread shows why public footpaths should not be opened up to cycling.

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Vantage
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Vantage » 26 Jul 2020, 12:18pm

Cycling and paths aren't the problem.
Knowing ones place and respecting others on the other hand is.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Jul 2020, 1:05pm

Let's agree that everyone should be considerate of others. I think it's fair to say that generalisations are not always helpful, especially when they tend to be based on the worst examples. But:-

Owning a dog seems to bring out the worst in some people: an unwillingness / inability to keep their animals under control; not recognising that others may be frightened of dogs or at least don't welcome contact with them; and some disgusting behaviour with dog faeces.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Tangled Metal » 26 Jul 2020, 3:17pm

reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:.......We can all blame those further down the hierarchy but who's right?..........


The the problem is that there is a 'hierachy'. Instead of all being equals that treat each other with respect.

PS,we're agreeing again :wink:

Way to go! I was in a good mood. :lol:

Tangled Metal
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Tangled Metal » 26 Jul 2020, 3:23pm

Vantage wrote:Cycling and paths aren't the problem.
Knowing ones place and respecting others on the other hand is.

I am a cyclist. I look up to him the motorist but down on him the pedestrian
I am a pedestrian, I know my place!

Sorry I'm thinking John Cheese through to Ronnie Corbett class sketch. Knowing ones place is very hierarchical. Instead of equal but different it's one group defining a place for another group. It's this attitude that's a problem. It's possibly why cycling and paths could very well be the problem.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Tangled Metal » 26 Jul 2020, 3:35pm

thirdcrank wrote:Let's agree that everyone should be considerate of others. I think it's fair to say that generalisations are not always helpful, especially when they tend to be based on the worst examples. But:-

Owning a dog seems to bring out the worst in some people: an unwillingness / inability to keep their animals under control; not recognising that others may be frightened of dogs or at least don't welcome contact with them; and some disgusting behaviour with dog faeces.

Owning a bike brings a similar effect with some people, as does a car or runners too. The worst in all those groups comes out. It's when their activity and others activities are happening in a location that doesn't work for all users. Whether that's not enough space or incompatible behaviours or speeds.

The classic examples are runners and cyclists on a narrow towpath with other users but still insists it's ok to maintain their significantly faster pace. My 7 year old nearly got barreled into the canal once when an angry runner gave us no warning he was coming and simply pushed past. Unfortunately I was too far ahead to realise what had happened. I was bigger than him!!

You see conflict between users is often put down to irresponsible individuals but the inconvenient truth is often that they aren't compatible on the route in question. A narrow towpath is IMHO only good for walking pace. Perhaps 4mph speed limit?? Totally unenforceable of course so pointless.

There's a sign that's been put up on our local canal. Basically it asks everyone to use the towpath responsibly but one out if 4 points specifically asked cyclists to be considerate around other users. That annoyed me because it picked out one type of user. IME speed of use is the issue and that point should have included runners. I've had more issues with runners than cyclists during the first few months of lockdown. That's despite there actually being more cyclists using the path.

andrewwillans49
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby andrewwillans49 » 27 Jul 2020, 4:40pm

Occasionally I get fed up with pedestrians, dog walkers, and cyclists.
In and around Letchworth garden city, we have The Greenway. 13 miles of shared pathway, about 1.8 metres wide plus grass margins that effectively increase the width by up to 3 additional metres. Most people are considerate, some are courteous, some are ignorant. Doesn't seem to matter which category of user. My policy as a cyclist is slow down for pedestrians, occasionally I have to stop as dogs wander across oblivious to me or their owners commands. Children, I fully expect to dart in front of me without looking, it's what they do. Sometimes I run on these tracks and am mindful of the fact that a cyclist approaching from behind will be faster than me so I keep to one side, and don't wear headphones as I want to have situational awareness as well as enjoy bird song.
So if people are inconsiderate, ignorant etc just go with the flow. Especially in these testing times.

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mjr
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby mjr » 27 Jul 2020, 5:45pm

andrewwillans49 wrote:In and around Letchworth garden city, we have The Greenway. 13 miles of shared pathway, about 1.8 metres wide plus grass margins that effectively increase the width by up to 3 additional metres.

By the way, I don't think you can claim grass verges as extra effective width. Effective width is always limited to the smooth all-weather surface and can only be narrowed by fences or high kerbs close to it that make the edges unusable. So that's a 1.8m width pathway, which sounds dangerously substandard for two-way cycle traffic alone (a standard cycle design vehicle is 1m wide).
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Chainslapper
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Chainslapper » 27 Jul 2020, 8:44pm

Just not worth getting into an argument with them - it’s infuriating I know but best to put some distance between them and you and just keep going. Very recently there’s been an issue in Birmingham with towpath Cyclists being pushed into the water - particularly around the Kings Norton stretch of the Birmingham Worcester Canal. You just can’t be too careful these days I’m afraid.... 8)

jgurney
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby jgurney » 27 Jul 2020, 10:07pm

Vantage wrote:Pedestrians have right of way over cyclists

Yes, in the same sense that pedestrians have right of way over motorists. However the behaviour the OP comments on does seem to occur mainly on those roads where motor vehicles are excluded, which suggests an element of discrimination.

jgurney
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby jgurney » 27 Jul 2020, 10:32pm

landsurfer wrote:if you don't like sharing paths ride somewhere else ... like roads

A 'shared path' is a road. The presence or absence of motor vehicles does not in any way alter the rights and responsibilities of pedestrians and cyclists towards each other.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Getting fed up with pedestrians and dogs on "shared" paths

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Jul 2020, 12:27am

jgurney wrote:
landsurfer wrote:if you don't like sharing paths ride somewhere else ... like roads

A 'shared path' is a road. The presence or absence of motor vehicles does not in any way alter the rights and responsibilities of pedestrians and cyclists towards each other.

I thought a lot of mixed use paths are footways that cycling has been allowed on. Not the right legal terms I know so please understand the meaning behind it.

Basically it's not a road which allows carriages but a footway for pedestrians which have a concession for cyclists. Certainly the ones near us are traditional footways for pedestrians originally. Then later they had pressure to provide cycle routes, due to becoming one of the original 5 cycling demonstration towns, so they gave those footways the legal concession for cycling use. Local bylaws or something.