Bath Bristol Speeder

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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foxyrider
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby foxyrider » 26 Aug 2020, 10:52am

I use the B+B quite regularly avpoiding some times of day and the Fishponds/city stretch particularly at weekends.

I ride faster than some, slower than others and I do indeed call out 'keep left' sometimes when i'm overtaking, a) it warns people that you are there and b) usually prevents the gap you were passing through disapearing! -'m not usually passing much quicker than they are travelling and surprisingly i've never had abuse doing so, maybe it's my laid back voice.

I often see, not just on the B+B, but on other trails too, younger persons falling off bikes, very often because they are inexperienced in riding full stop - jam brakes on and turn bars hard will inevitably result in small child on floor bawling, probably happens 10 times a day on the B+B in good weather.

Ime it's the commuters who are the ones racing along at high speeds, actual roadies won't be on there. I can get to Bath 10 minutes faster by road than the bike path!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

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simonineaston
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby simonineaston » 26 Aug 2020, 10:56am

I can get to Bath 10 minutes faster by road than the bike path!
It is the long way round, isn't it?!
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby Bmblbzzz » 26 Aug 2020, 11:05am

slowster wrote:...

Like that family group, many cyclists who might be considered selfish or unsafe have probably simply never learned - and never been taught - how to ride a bike, and just don't know any better. What would probably make the biggest difference to improving the behaviour and the risks posed by such cyclists to themselves and others, is lots more people on bikes.

So called 'critical mass' of cycling will not just influence drivers, it will also influence cyclists. Once the density of cyclists on a path reaches a certain level, it forces riders to fit in and ride as part of the general flow. Inexperienced cyclists will benefit from this, because it gives them the opportunity to learn simply by being forced to copy what everyone else is doing.

I think that was an outlying case. Certainly there's nothing that steep on the B2B and no gravel at all - it's all smooth tarmac. The people going too fast are in control of their bikes, they're just inconsiderate; either deliberately so or without realising it.

I do agree that critical mass of cyclists will slow those people down, at least mostly. We've seen the same process on the roads were car speeds have fallen as numbers rise.

slowster
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby slowster » 26 Aug 2020, 11:34am

Tangled Metal wrote:How can anyone be so ignorant as to not realise riding too fast on a mixed use path for safety is not right way to behave ?

I think writing off bad behaviour as being ignorant of the way to ride is treating them as infants without the understanding of right and wrong. Doing that kind of lets them out of being responsible for their own actions. If you're not responsible for your own actions then you're not fit to be there riding a bike without supervision.

IMHO it is simple. Riding too fast on mixed use paths is wrong. No excuse for the majority of those idiots who do it!

It's possible that the woman who shouted 'Watch out!' may have done so simply out of arrogance and selfishness in expecting that others should get out of her way (in the same way that Charlie Alliston twice shouted at the woman he killed to 'get out of the ****ing way!').

However, it's also possible that she was an inexperienced and nervous rider. I think such riders often have more confidence in the skills and behaviour of others than in themselves. Consequently rather than using the brakes to moderate their speed, like the young girl I described above, they rely more on what they perceive as more able riders around them to accommodate their lower skill level.

I am being sexist in saying this, because if it had been a man I would have assumed that he was being arrogant and selfish, whereas I've not been on the receiving end of such behaviour from a woman (and obviously I am stereotyping: not all woman are like that, just as not all men are like that, but I think the generalisation is valid).

In contrast, I think the members of this forum, female or male, would behave quite differently, not simply out of common courtesy, but more out of greater experience and awareness of risk and potential hazards. We would be on the brakes, and that would be out of concern about the unpredictability of others and the potential for us to be hurt.

Lastly, I think that the argument I made for riding among large numbers of other cyclists acting as a moderating influence can also work in reverse. When I have seen some videos of commuting cyclists on the roads in London, it has struck me that the 'cut and thrust' style of riding is something which is so normalised that it may be difficult for other riders, especially novices, not to fall into the same pattern of behaviour.

In other words, it's less about the individual, and more about group behaviours and dynamics.

But that particular woman may just have been an inconsiderate jerk.

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tykeboy2003
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby tykeboy2003 » 26 Aug 2020, 11:52am

RH20 wrote:We seem to be more and more a society of me first, me second and me last.


Absolutely. This morning driving our motorhome, I was forced to stop by a speeding car coming the other way on my side of the road passing parked vehicles. This despite me being almost alongside the first parked car before they came over to my side of the road and there being none parked on my side of the road. I was taught to give way in such circumstances, it seems nobody bothers any more as long as they go first.

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simonineaston
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby simonineaston » 26 Aug 2020, 12:13pm

I was taught to give way in such circumstances, it seems nobody bothers any more as long as they go first.
The whole underlying ethos of the western world has changed (and in some ways, for the better... although I can't think of lots of useful examples, off the cuff!). It's not about standards and obeying the rules or sticking to guidelines any more. Many of us have switched to thinking about rights and choice and access. In short, we're many of us not interested in fitting in anymore, just hell bent on getting what's ours... I knew there'd be trouble when that Blair kept banging on about "choices".
(Personally, I have a rather more sinister theory, which is that we're entering into times that are completely unprecidented, where even the dimmest amongst us has got a faint, uncomfortable semi-conscious sense that it's all over, that we're done for, that there's no point in anything anymore, and that as such, anything goes. It's a well-known phenomenum, often referred to as fin de siècle...)
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

Tangled Metal
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby Tangled Metal » 26 Aug 2020, 1:33pm

Use of brakes is an early skill to learn. My son got it just a few minutes after riding without stabilizers for the first time at tbe age of 3. An adult riding a bike must surely get the idea behind brakes and at least the basics required to stop and slow down too. Riding at speed is very much a decision or choice from very early on in your cycling life. I don't buy the too inexperienced to use brakes to slow down excuse. It's an excuse for bad decision making for sure.

whoof
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby whoof » 26 Aug 2020, 2:53pm

I ride this path daily from Warmley to Bath and back. It's not as busy as the section into Bristol. Some of the riding is very poor; too fast for a shared path, no awareness or consideration of others around them and close passing into the oncoming traffic.

I've just had a search on Crashmap.co.uk and searched for vehicle=cycle casualty=pedestrian with the injury being severe or fatal on 21 km of this shared path over a 19 year period. There were no results. I then repeated with the vehicle and casualty both being cycle and there was one result at Warmley in 2001.

To put this in context the has been one pedestrian killed (run over on a pedestrian crossing) and another seriously injured (run over on the pavement) by cars within 21 metres of my house in the past 3 years.

It was very windy yesterday so I didn't cycle I got the bus. On the two minute walk back to my house I saw one person texting, one speaking on the phone, one car stank of cannabis (drugged driving) and I wouldn't even attempt to try and count the number of speeding cars. No one, pedestrian or other motorist gave them a second glance. If I ride up that road and don't ride on a shared cycle path it's very likely that someone, usually a motorist but sometimes a pedestrian will shout abuse at me "get on the ******* bike path"

What people see and how they react has more to do with how they 'feel' than the actual risk or danger.

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foxyrider
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby foxyrider » 27 Aug 2020, 5:12pm

today was a good day to use the B2B - hardly a soul to be seen when i rode Mangots to Fishponds this pm! :lol: Mind you, it was hissing it down.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

rmurphy195
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby rmurphy195 » 13 Sep 2020, 11:00pm

RH20 wrote:Speeding cyclists shouting “watch out” whilst not slowing down are akin to motorists pipping their horn at pedestrians crossing the road and not slowing down.
On the road, cyclists complain about motorists not giving enough space to cyclists. Cyclists should try and always give the courtesy and respect they want from others. On mixed use paths slow down, consider others. If a cyclist wants to speed along, then make sure it is done where it is safe.
I have seen similar incidents on the Trans Pennine Trail, cyclists “in the zone” bombing on seemingly without a care for anyone else. More often than not it is when they are travelling west to east, almost down hill all the way from the Pennines to the east coast.
We seem to be more and more a society of me first, me second and me last.

+1!

I've been forced off the B2B path into a wall by an oncoming cyclist - he was dangerously overtaking another cyclist who in turn was passing a pedestrian! I haven't been back since, its too dangerous when busy.

Interstingly on the same ride I slowed down and crept past a man with a small child who was riding a toddler bike, obviously learning. I'll never forget the look of gratitude on the giuy's face as I slowed and said hello - shorlty before I was forced off the path. I can see why he was grateful.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

andrewwillans49
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby andrewwillans49 » 14 Sep 2020, 7:07am

What simonineaston said. Never been to Bristol myself. As individuals all we can do is carry on doing the right thing, ie, being considerate and cautious. Hopefully this will influence others behaviour to do the right thing. If we give up, then it's just a race to the bottom.
In Letchworth Garden City, we are fortunate to have the Greenway, which is a mostly off road shared track. Walkers, dog walkers, runners and cyclists. All types of behaviour from curtious to dangerous. 95 percent are the former and the small minority of cyclists that appear to be going for "a time" appear oblivious to their selfish behaviour. OTOH, plenty of dog walkers let dogs, off their leads without consideration for any other individuals.
Just do the right thing everyone.

Smallcog
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Re: Bath Bristol Speeder

Postby Smallcog » 20 Sep 2020, 6:56pm

I've used this route loads. It's for sensible commuting and enjoyable pootling - it's not a race track. Slow down, warn people you are there and be tolerant.

As a pedestrian, I got rather aggressively challenged by a dad with daughter on a kiddyback and son on his own bike today - they were on the (non shared) footpath whizzing down the itchen bridge and the fella seemed rather aggrieved that I hadn't got out of the way quickly enough as the son had tootled his toy bell just as he ran into me. My suggestion that they were breaking the law and could use the adjacent dedicated cycle path was, shall we say, poorly received. Gives cyclists a bad name and appallingly training for the kids.