More drivers cleared after rider's death.

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Postboxer
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby Postboxer » 8 Sep 2020, 4:19pm

Jdsk wrote:
Postboxer wrote:Does anyone know what happens insurance claim wise in cases such as this?

Usual process... but what do you mean by "such as this"?

Postboxer wrote:I assume there's no way the driver can dispute they were at fault for causing the accident, though I have no idea what amount, if any, the family can claim.

There are two drivers. But if a claim is made against either I wouldn't make that assumption. The fact of conviction can be offered in evidence in a civil action but it doesn't make the outcome automatic.

Jonathan


I forgot about the complication of there being two drivers in this case. I meant in a case where a driver claims they didn't see a cyclist they crashed into from behind, sadly killing them, then the criminal court process fails and the driver is found not guilty, can the victim's family claim against the driver's insurance and what damages can they claim for?

thirdcrank
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Sep 2020, 4:32pm

Postboxer wrote:[ ... I meant in a case where a driver claims they didn't see a cyclist they crashed into from behind, sadly killing them, then the criminal court process fails and the driver is found not guilty, can the victim's family claim against the driver's insurance and what damages can they claim for?


The claim would be for negligence. That would be decided on the balance of probabilities, which amongst other things means that it must go one way or the other. Speaking as a layman, I would assume that the defence to the prosecution - Sun in eyes - would not be a defence to negligence eg the HC advises drivers what to do and, without looking it up, it doesn't say "just carry on regardless." When negligence is proved or admitted, then contributory negligence may reduce the payout. In this case the deceased was apparently wearing hi-viz togs so that's not an issue. Also, if you claim you didn't see somebody, it's not easy to allege they were eg swerving all over the road. With that settled and AFAIK, there are well-established formulae for calculating the amount of the payout. Incidentally, killing somebody tends to be cheaper than paralyzing them, when they will have lifelong care needs.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 8 Sep 2020, 5:12pm

thirdcrank wrote:Incidentally, killing somebody tends to be cheaper than paralyzing them, when they will have lifelong care needs.


That's why for many years infantry weaponry wasn't designed to kill, but to injure - that way you get two or three of the enemy infantry off the front lines to escort their wounded friend to a field hospital.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Jdsk
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby Jdsk » 8 Sep 2020, 5:14pm

Postboxer wrote: I meant in a case where a driver claims they didn't see a cyclist they crashed into from behind, sadly killing them, then the criminal court process fails and the driver is found not guilty, can the victim's family claim against the driver's insurance and what damages can they claim for?

Yes, the acquittal on the criminal charge doesn't get in the way of the civil claim.

As above for negligence.

But the criminal process didn't fail. The accused was acquitted. The prosecution failed to convince the jury.

Jonathan

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bigjim
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby bigjim » 8 Sep 2020, 5:51pm

The problem with these cases is you cannot be judged by an unbiased jury. The UK is not cyclist friendly and I presume all or most members of the jury will be drivers. They will be influenced by the "there but for the grace of god, this could be me" syndrome. It used to be a "only drive at the speed which you can see to be clear" HC rule. But they have deleted that.

Phil Fouracre
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby Phil Fouracre » 8 Sep 2020, 8:47pm

Have they deleted it? Oops didn’t know that, ridiculous!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Mike Sales
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Sep 2020, 8:53pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:Have they deleted it? Oops didn’t know that, ridiculous!


I didn't either, so I have checked. That caution is still there.

Rule 126.

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158
Last edited by Mike Sales on 8 Sep 2020, 8:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby Jdsk » 8 Sep 2020, 8:54pm

Thanks

Jonathan

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bigjim
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby bigjim » 8 Sep 2020, 10:29pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Phil Fouracre wrote:Have they deleted it? Oops didn’t know that, ridiculous!


I didn't either, so I have checked. That caution is still there.

Rule 126.

Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158

Read that it had changed in 2018 also they 2 second spacing rule. Will check again tomorrow. Think it was a motorcycle site.

Jdsk
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby Jdsk » 8 Sep 2020, 10:31pm

Changes, including those from 2018:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/updates

Jonathan

PDQ Mobile
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Re: More drivers cleared after rider's death.

Postby PDQ Mobile » 8 Sep 2020, 10:49pm

The headline of this topic is misleading.
Only one driver has been acquitted.
The other found guilty of 'causing death by careless driving'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54074610