Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.

Should dogs on a shared-use path be kept on a short lead

YES
26
68%
NO
12
32%
 
Total votes: 38

Jdsk
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Jdsk » 20 Sep 2020, 10:55am

Not too keen on that hyphenated adverb or the comma between the adverbial phrase and the verb it modifies, Simon.

Is Skitt's Law in play?

: - )

Jonathan

qwerty360
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby qwerty360 » 20 Sep 2020, 11:08am

Legally a cycle track is a highway, therefore dogs should be under control (Same legal situation as a road).

I would note that this is distinct from being on a lead. (I have been involved in an argument where a driver nearly hit dog+walker when traffic lights changed (no pedestrian phase, but a crossing...), then tried to argue they were at fault because the dog wasn't on a lead... It hadn't moved more than 10cm from the owners heal while I had been watching... I have had a dog run across my path with an extendomatic 10m lead stretching behind it... Which do you think was under control :?:

In practice, it is highly variable as to where the track is. There are plenty of places where cycle lanes are installed (so we can get the cyclists out of the way of cars...) through parks etc where dogs WILL be off lead; It is one of the few places in an area they can be safely. Then get arguments that the existance of a barely usable cycle lane (pedestrians, dogs, children, footballs etc) means we don't need to install proper dedicated cycling infrastructure for people using a bike to get somewhere... (See Park Lane in London)



Most cases I have heard where there are arguments about a cyclist hitting a dog and being blamed for 'flying through' usually end up with a more neutral party pointing out the cyclist was going at maybe twice walking pace at the time, which given how a bike stays upright is fairly close to the minimum speed a cyclist can safely travel at, as lower speeds drastically reduce stability. If we claim cyclists need to allow for this, then the path isn't suitable for any through traffic, so shouldn't be signed for directions or included in infrastructure route planning being access only.

Navara
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Navara » 20 Sep 2020, 11:33am

I voted NO in the poll because there were only two options.
Most shared paths I use ask dog-walkers to keep dogs on a short lead.This does not stop some walkers letting their dog wander 20ft in front of them on an extendable lead.This can be even more dangerous than an off lead hound.

The issue is not the dog but the owner and training.My dogs will walk beside me on command.They will stop and sit on command or by whistle.If I tell them to go to the side of the trail and sit they will.I do this for cyclists and horses.It isn't difficult but takes time to train which I think many dog owners don't seem to be bothering to do.Most dogs by nature are very intelligent.Unfortunately some owners aren't!

jgurney
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby jgurney » 20 Sep 2020, 12:25pm

Pebble wrote:Dogs off lead sympathiser here - it's their walk and they want to run about and have the freedom to stop and sniff and chase and socialise with their own kind. If cyclists want to ride fast then they can get on the road where they belong


In what way are these 'shared paths' not roads or parts of roads?

jgurney
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby jgurney » 20 Sep 2020, 12:41pm

Vantage wrote: Why is it dangerous for a dog to be off its lead? I'm genuinely interested as most dogs I meet are perfectly friendly and not violent.
Where are these large open spaces you speak of? There's country parks of course but not everyone is within walking distance of them.
If someone isn't a dog lover that's their problem. Maybe they should stick to staying in the city/indoors where there no dogs. Or maybe we dog owners should just keep our furry friends locked in their cages never to experience freedom?


Which of these are you advocating:

- that people with dogs should be able to let them run loose on all public highways?

- that people with dogs should be required to keep them on leads in the presence of motorised traffic but able to let them run loose on those public highways where motor vehicles are excluded?

- something else?

Oldjohnw
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Oldjohnw » 20 Sep 2020, 1:43pm

Vantage wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Vantage wrote:You'd have to ask them Rob.
Maybe they like the control they have over their dogs. Maybe they're training their dogs. Maybe they're not too confident with their dogs. Maybe their dogs are nuts. Or more stupid than others. Who knows.
We as cyclists expect the bigger, faster moving vehicles (cars etc) to be extra cautious around us. We as cyclists should extend that courtesy to slower moving people, dogs too.


You are overlooking that as well as cyclists and people with dogs there might be non dog-owning walkers.


As said earlier in bold italic :)


Thanks. I missed that.
John

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Vantage
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Vantage » 20 Sep 2020, 2:11pm

jgurney wrote:
Vantage wrote: Why is it dangerous for a dog to be off its lead? I'm genuinely interested as most dogs I meet are perfectly friendly and not violent.
Where are these large open spaces you speak of? There's country parks of course but not everyone is within walking distance of them.
If someone isn't a dog lover that's their problem. Maybe they should stick to staying in the city/indoors where there no dogs. Or maybe we dog owners should just keep our furry friends locked in their cages never to experience freedom?


Which of these are you advocating:

- that people with dogs should be able to let them run loose on all public highways?

- that people with dogs should be required to keep them on leads in the presence of motorised traffic but able to let them run loose on those public highways where motor vehicles are excluded?

- something else?


Option 2.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

peetee
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby peetee » 20 Sep 2020, 3:23pm

Am I right in thinking that any dog should be under control in a public area and If not on a lead they should be obedient enough to return to their owner if called?
There is more to this than the potential danger of conflict with passing cyclists. I have seen dogs wander across family picnic rugs, knock over children and steal sandwiches from the hands of strangers. I’m not anti-dog, by the way, but very much anti care-free owners.
Last edited by peetee on 20 Sep 2020, 3:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

Jdsk
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Jdsk » 20 Sep 2020, 3:27pm

In England...

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, such as:
in a public place
in a private place, for example a neighbour’s house or garden
in the owner’s home
The law applies to all dogs.

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Jonathan

peetee
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby peetee » 20 Sep 2020, 3:31pm

Hmmm. ‘Dangerously out of control’ is very subjective. One persons danger (Or nuisance) is another persons “He’s friendly, he won’t hurt you”.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

Jdsk
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Jdsk » 20 Sep 2020, 3:36pm


Pebble
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Pebble » 20 Sep 2020, 3:50pm

Don't mind dogs if they are under stict control and on a short lead.!

with my Jeremy Clarkson hat on - I don't mind cyclists if they are obeying the law, know the difference between red and green, ride close to the side, wear a helmet, wear high vis, have an MOT, road tax, reg plates, licence ..... lets make it so inconvenience and unpleasurable they give up and buy a car (or get rid of dog depending prejudices)

jgurney
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby jgurney » 20 Sep 2020, 4:18pm

Vantage wrote:
jgurney wrote: Which of these are you advocating:

- that people with dogs should be able to let them run loose on all public highways?

- that people with dogs should be required to keep them on leads in the presence of motorised traffic but able to let them run loose on those public highways where motor vehicles are excluded?

- something else?


Option 2.


Seems an extreme pro-motorist stance to me. Why do you think motorists should have the privilege of having dogs kept out of their way but cyclists be expected to carefully weave around dogs?

There are (as above) arguments to be made for dogs being restrained on roads, or for their being allowed to run free and all other users being careful of them, but the idea that they should be kept out of the motorists way but all other road users be expected to be careful of them seems hard to justify.

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Vantage
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby Vantage » 20 Sep 2020, 4:49pm

Seems like no matter which option I'd clarified you'd have skewed my statement.
I'll leave it there thanks.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

rob_wales
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Re: Off-lead dogs on shared paths?

Postby rob_wales » 20 Sep 2020, 5:37pm

peetee wrote:Hmmm. ‘Dangerously out of control’ is very subjective. One persons danger (Or nuisance) is another persons “He’s friendly, he won’t hurt you”.


It is not subjective at all, it is quite clear and the penalties can be quite severe. Notice the part about 'fear' as well as actual injury. Any dog-owner letting their do off-lead and it causes a problem (either injury or fear) is, it seems, taking quite a risk.

https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/laws-all-dog-owners-need-know

Selected highlight...

Out of control in a public place
Dogs must not be allowed to be ‘dangerously out of control’, which means injuring someone or making someone fear they may be injured. This applies to any breed or type of dog.

Owners (or the person in charge of the dog at the time) who allow their pets to hurt a person face punishments of up to three years in prison for injury, or 14 years for death, an unlimited fine, disqualification from owning pets, and having their dog destroyed. It is also an offence to allow a dog to injure a registered assistance dog.

In cases where no injury is caused, owners can still go to prison for six months, be fined up to £5,000, be banned from owning pets and have their dog destroyed.

We highly recommend taking your dog to positive reinforcement training classes and making sure they are well behaved members of society.

Read our advice on how to approach a dog in a public place.

Law: Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, section 3