Lights on segregated cycle path legally required?

[tatanab]

If I remember correctly there was an inquest not long ago into a cyclist with lights on a cycle path who collided with a car that had veered onto the cycle path when the driver was confused by the cyclists lights, thinking he was on the wrong side of the road.

I recall hearing that about 10 years ago, perhaps more. I wonder if it is an urban legend, although I can see how it may happen.

[mikeymo]

On a practical point, I sometimes use an on pavement cycle route on the right hand side of the road. I either turn off my front light or point it at the ground to avoid confusing drivers.

Which is exactly the layout in the photo a few posts up. I've not ridden it in the dark yet, but if I do, I'll follow your example.

I hope you get fined before an oncoming rider crashes as a result.

I think it's pretty unlikely I'll get fined. Although, are there regulations about the angle that the light is meant to be at? Is "pointing it at the ground" covered in the regs?

But anyway, aren't you meant to travel at a speed so you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

I mean, I usually ride on an all black bicycle, and wear all black, but according to some on these fora that shouldn't matter. Because other road users should be travelling at a speed so that they can "stop in the distance you can see to be clear". So if other road users can't see me, that's because they're going too fast and should either go slower, or get lights that illuminate further ahead.

Or do these strictures only apply to drivers of motorised vehicles?

[mikeymo]

On a practical point, I sometimes use an on pavement cycle route on the right hand side of the road. I either turn off my front light or point it at the ground to avoid confusing drivers.

Which is exactly the layout in the photo a few posts up. I've not ridden it in the dark yet, but if I do, I'll follow your example.

I hope you get fined before an oncoming rider crashes as a result.

But you're right, I might get fined. It will probably happen as part of the massive police campaign that also includes prosecuting cyclists riding at night that don't have rear reflectors or pedal reflectors.

[MikeF]

If I remember correctly there was an inquest not long ago into a cyclist with lights on a cycle path who collided with a car that had veered onto the cycle path when the driver was confused by the cyclists lights, thinking he was on the wrong side of the road.

Anyone else remember the details.

No. I hope he didn't get away with that. Correct behaviour if on wrong side would be to get to the correct side, not drive into the oncoming traffic.

But the point being made was that the oncoming white lights were on the driver's left, so the "correct" side would be to the driver's left of those white lights.

I think this is a major problem for two way cycleways adjacent to a carriageway. Often there isn't a verge or any separation other than a kerb.

[mjr]

But the point being made was that the oncoming white lights were on the driver's left, so the "correct" side would be to the driver's left of those white lights.

I think this is a major problem for two way cycleways adjacent to a carriageway. Often there isn't a verge or any separation other than a kerb.

There are numerous road layouts where white lights will be to a driver's left. Some have minimal separation and sometimes the white lights will be oncoming motor vehicles. No driver should be positioning themselves from the lights of other road users and doing so is careless driving, which is why I hope that the mentioned driver did not get away with it.

More generally, no cyclist should be encouraged to act illegally and put themselves at risk in a misguided attempt to compensate for incompetent driving.

[Mick F]

Parking during the hours of darkness requires vehicles to be parked in the direction of the traffic flow.
Highway Code 248 and 249
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/parking-at-night.html

[mikeymo]

Parking during the hours of darkness requires vehicles to be parked in the direction of the traffic flow.
Highway Code 248 and 249
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/parking-at-night.html

Interesting. And the word "must" is used there. People on thy forae say that use of the word "must" means that it is a crime not to do the thing stated. So is this like pedal reflectors? It's a law, but most people ignore it, nobody is prosecuted, so it doesn't really count?

[mikeymo]

More generally, no cyclist should be encouraged to act illegally

I look forward to your campaign to have the law about pedal reflectors enforced. After all, we wouldn't want to have any cyclists acting "illegally", would we?

I look forward to your campaign to have the law about pedal reflectors enforced. After all, we wouldn't want to have any cyclists acting "illegally", would we?

[MikeF]

There are numerous road layouts where white lights will be to a driver's left.

Are there??

[mikeymo]

There are numerous road layouts where white lights will be to a driver's left.

Are there??

Yes, I was wondering what these "numerous" layouts were.

[mjr]

There are numerous road layouts where white lights will be to a driver's left.

Are there??

Yes, I was wondering what these "numerous" layouts were.

Pretty much any time you have parallel two-way roadways: high speed ones where both are major motorways or carriageways often have high fencing like on the examples by the M25/A30, M4/A4 and M42 near Solihull but lower speed roads often don't, especially when the parallel road is "just" a service road for houses not allowed to emerge directly into a major road, like outside my house. Then roads with a footway or cycleway on the left are very common, plus an awful lot of roadside houses have white lights on their fronts or gates. Then you get it at some junction layouts like four level stacks (right turns at Almondsbury), windmills and diverging diamonds (one near Honda in Swindon), although some have had walls or fences added as mentioned.

Positioning yourself on the basis of other white lights is careless and a recipe for failure. You must be able to see the road, so use it.

[mikeymo]

< Mangled quotation deleted >

Well done. You've found a small number of examples. Interesting that, as you note, fences are sometimes erected between the roads. I'm guessing here, but just maaayyybeee it's partly because the road engineers recognise exactly the problem that I'm suggesting.

Yes indeed, roads often have a "footway" on the left. Presumably for people using their "feet" to walk. Maybe I've missed it, but are pedestrians obliged by law to display lights at night? Otherwise I'm not sure what the relevance of your comment is.

By the way, I've noticed you are studiously ignoring my comment about the illegality of all those cyclists riding at night without pedal reflectors. I therefore infer that you think it's OK to ignore laws when the mood takes you, I'll adopt the same policy on this stretch of cycleway. A stretch of cycleway that I know, and you don't. Which is to use lights when I think they'll be useful, and not when I think they won't.

[RickH]

There are numerous road layouts where white lights will be to a driver's left.

Are there??

If you are heading into Wales on the A494. The main road is a dual carriageway. On either side is a 2 way road & each road has a 2 way cycle lane on the side farthest from the dual carriageway.

Here is the section on Google StreetView.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cjj6GMSiBGduTRhY8

(The bridge across the whole lot carries the Millennium Greenway, a former railway line that is now a popular shared use path.)

[mikeymo]

There are numerous road layouts where white lights will be to a driver's left.

Are there??

If you are heading into Wales on the A494. The main road is a dual carriageway. On either side is a 2 way road & each road has a 2 way cycle lane on the side farthest from the dual carriageway.

Here is the section on Google StreetView.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cjj6GMSiBGduTRhY8

(The bridge across the whole lot carries the Millennium Greenway, a former railway line that is now a popular shared use path.)

You've found an example. Well done.

That there are times where road users will see white lights to their left does not mean that road users seeing white lights to their left is a good thing. Finding an example of a thing in existence does not mean that the thing is good or ideal.

Most of the time, at night, drivers and riders will see, and expect to see, red vehicle lights directly in front of them, and white lights ahead and slightly to the right. White lights ahead and to the left has the potential to confuse.

Of course the old fall back is that other road users should be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. As so very often quoted in these forae in defence of the all black stealth cycling style. If I don't have my lights on, and an oncoming cyclist crashes in to me, then she was cycling faster than the distance she could see to be clear, yes?

On the stretch of cycle way I'm talking about there is, at the moment (it's new), hardly any cycle traffic. But there is plenty of oncoming motor traffic on the adjacent road. So I'll decide according to traffic (of both sorts), lighting conditions, weather conditions (fog/mist/snow/rain), my clothing, whether to use lights or not. If it's anywhere near dusk they will be on the bike anyway, so it's easy to turn them on or off.

[mikeymo]

...plus an awful lot of roadside houses have white lights on their fronts or gates...

Kinda clutching at examples of "white lights near roads" there, aren't you?

But I don't think they should be allowed, as it happens. And if I ruled the world planning legislation wouldn't permit them, along with all the other umpteen distractions, like illuminated advertising displays right next roads.