A Close Shave

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
thirdcrank
Posts: 30520
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A Close Shave

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Oct 2020, 2:29pm

Once upon a time, gaining the experience you are talking about was part of the progression from bicycle to possible car ownership. Now, it's a progression from being a car passenger to car ownership with little other experience.

mikeymo
Posts: 1885
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: A Close Shave

Postby mikeymo » 11 Oct 2020, 4:37pm

thirdcrank wrote:Once upon a time, gaining the experience you are talking about was part of the progression from bicycle to possible car ownership. Now, it's a progression from being a car passenger to car ownership with little other experience.


Yes, it's a shame isn't it?

At least when, or if, my son starts driving, he will have spent 4 years cycling 5 days a week in a busy city. And hopefully that will make him a better driver,

peetee
Posts: 2759
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: A Close Shave

Postby peetee » 11 Oct 2020, 8:15pm

mikeymo wrote:
At least when, or if, my son starts driving, he will have spent 4 years cycling 5 days a week in a busy city. And hopefully that will make him a better driver,


And so it was with me. At the age of 25 I passed my driving test first time after a bit of family tuition and only three lessons with a professional instructor.
I had buckets full of road experience and hazard awareness after several years of city commuting by bike.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

ChrisP100
Posts: 69
Joined: 24 Sep 2020, 9:00am

Re: A Close Shave

Postby ChrisP100 » 11 Oct 2020, 8:39pm

peetee wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
At least when, or if, my son starts driving, he will have spent 4 years cycling 5 days a week in a busy city. And hopefully that will make him a better driver,


And so it was with me. At the age of 25 I passed my driving test first time after a bit of family tuition and only three lessons with a professional instructor.
I had buckets full of road experience and hazard awareness after several years of city commuting by bike.

I passed my driving test at 17, but I'd been riding on the road from the age of 11 when I started High School. It certainly helped.

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tykeboy2003
Posts: 1130
Joined: 19 Jul 2010, 2:51pm
Location: Swadlincote, South Derbyshire

Re: A Close Shave

Postby tykeboy2003 » 12 Oct 2020, 7:32pm

NUKe wrote:All this said the car had plenty of time and should have been anticipating your moves and slowed a little.


Absolutely agree, but this is seldom the case these days. There seems to be much more of an attitude of "it's my right of way so I'm not slowing down for anybody".

Phil Fouracre
Posts: 881
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 12:16pm
Location: Deepest Somerset

Re: A Close Shave

Postby Phil Fouracre » 13 Oct 2020, 11:33am

tykeboy2003 wrote:
NUKe wrote:All this said the car had plenty of time and should have been anticipating your moves and slowed a little.


Absolutely agree, but this is seldom the case these days. There seems to be much more of an attitude of "it's my right of way so I'm not slowing down for anybody".


Interesting - this chimes with a lot of what I’m seeing. So many drivers just expect to carry on regardless, and they are upset when they have to ‘slam on’ their brakes at the last moment! There doesn’t seem to be any anticipation of a problem arising right in front of them! It’s always, ‘I didn’t expect that’, whether it’s stationary traffic, lights, junctions etc.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Phil Fouracre
Posts: 881
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 12:16pm
Location: Deepest Somerset

Re: A Close Shave

Postby Phil Fouracre » 13 Oct 2020, 11:39am

I don't share the low opinion, so frequently expressed in insulting language here, of the majority of drivers. I think most drivers are actually OK. But for the purpose of your own self preservation, if you just imagine them all to be drunken half-wits, that might be a good assumption to make.[/quote]

I’d agree wholeheartedly with this - and, not just drunk, but out to try and kill you, and you won’t go far wrong!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

thirdcrank
Posts: 30520
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: A Close Shave

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Oct 2020, 1:10pm

Away from speed cameras, one of the few things that keeps traffic speeds down nowadays is congestion. This has been greatly reduced in recent months, especially in the early part of lockdown. Light but fast-moving traffic can make things like crossing a road almost impossible to achieve safely

Jdsk
Posts: 5150
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: A Close Shave

Postby Jdsk » 13 Oct 2020, 1:48pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:
I don't share the low opinion, so frequently expressed in insulting language here, of the majority of drivers. I think most drivers are actually OK. But for the purpose of your own self preservation, if you just imagine them all to be drunken half-wits, that might be a good assumption to make.

I’d agree wholeheartedly with this - and, not just drunk, but out to try and kill you, and you won’t go far wrong!

That has some value for thinking about defensive cycling (and driving). And is widely used for that purpose in our family when we're trying to teach each other.

But for planning and campaigning for improved road safety it's not very productive, because they aren't.

Jonathan

mikeymo
Posts: 1885
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: A Close Shave

Postby mikeymo » 13 Oct 2020, 2:17pm

Jdsk wrote:
Phil Fouracre wrote:
I don't share the low opinion, so frequently expressed in insulting language here, of the majority of drivers. I think most drivers are actually OK. But for the purpose of your own self preservation, if you just imagine them all to be drunken half-wits, that might be a good assumption to make.

I’d agree wholeheartedly with this - and, not just drunk, but out to try and kill you, and you won’t go far wrong!

That has some value for thinking about defensive cycling (and driving). And is widely used for that purpose in our family when we're trying to teach each other.

But for planning and campaigning for improved road safety it's not very productive, because they aren't.

Jonathan


I hope I made it clear in my initial comment, as quoted, that I don't share the attitude of many on these foriae towards drivers. As you say, most drivers aren't like that, at all.

But from an individual safety point of view, it can be effective.

ChrisP100
Posts: 69
Joined: 24 Sep 2020, 9:00am

Re: A Close Shave

Postby ChrisP100 » 17 Oct 2020, 5:14pm

I'd just like to add another 'experience' from yesterday.

I was cycling along a fairly quiet road passing a barrier controlled entrance gate on my RHS. The gate is set back from the road, and the T-junction is a stop. 50 yds either side of the junction there is a Zebra Crossing.

As I was approaching the junction (wearing a bright yellow jacket, with my front light on flash mode; it was around 4pm, so still daylight) I noticed a white parcel delivery van approaching the junction and signalling right. As I was directly opposite the junction (I'd sped up by this point, just in case) the van just went through the stop sign and squeezed me into the kerb. The driver finally noticed me just before I ducked to avoid getting taken out by his wing mirror. He jabbed his brakes, swerved, and missed me by inches. I think if I hadn't sped up things may have ended differently.

I turned around to see the look of absolute horror on the drivers face. He'd obviously just not seen me. Maybe distracted, but if he'd stopped at the stop sign........

It just goes to show that no matter how hard we try an make ourselves visible, sometimes it just isn't enough.

Megalodon 5
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Joined: 13 Dec 2020, 12:36pm

Re: A Close Shave

Postby Megalodon 5 » 13 Dec 2020, 12:52pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:It’s a fairly common problem. Some drivers remove their brains when they get in a car. If I were you I’d be plotting routes that don’t involve main roads until I got a bit more used to riding with traffic. There are usually parks / shared paths etc. that can be used to get around, without encountering too many vehicles.


Farmers are worse: one i encountered today thought it would be a good idea to drive his giant combine harvester the wrong way down a one-way road at over the speed limit.

... a lot of swearing ensued from myself and the cylists i was with.

Advice: always brake sooner than you think you need to. it is always easier to speed up then to slow down.

johnjo
Posts: 20
Joined: 6 Jan 2014, 10:33am

Re: A Close Shave

Postby johnjo » 13 Jan 2021, 4:27pm

Just a footnote here. Many years ago I owned a small motorcycle and during the learning to ride process I was recommended to read the Police motorcycle training manual which advocates defensive driving. I have, since then, adapted and adopted the principle and cycle assuming that every other road user is my potential killer and ride accordingly. Maybe a bit extreme but so far this has helped me avoid mishaps.

ChrisP100
Posts: 69
Joined: 24 Sep 2020, 9:00am

Re: A Close Shave

Postby ChrisP100 » 14 Jan 2021, 4:53pm

johnjo wrote:Just a footnote here. Many years ago I owned a small motorcycle and during the learning to ride process I was recommended to read the Police motorcycle training manual which advocates defensive driving. I have, since then, adapted and adopted the principle and cycle assuming that every other road user is my potential killer and ride accordingly. Maybe a bit extreme but so far this has helped me avoid mishaps.

Very good advice.