Invisible indicators on new cars.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 17 Oct 2020, 7:24pm

Hi,
I also see that if indicators are incorporated into front and rear lights and can be seen from the side I don't need side repeaters.
But you can't even see them as said by most from the front :roll:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 17 Oct 2020, 7:29pm

Hi,
Mick F wrote:
simonineaston wrote:
Has anyone noticed or more to the point not noticed indicators on some new cars?
Yes, I have.
Me too, and for some years.

Rears are fine, but fronts are terrible these days.
Talking as a motorist, and cyclist, and as pedestrian.

And don't forget sailor :)
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Oct 2020, 8:57pm

tim-b wrote:Hi
Tangled Metal wrote:Also indicators moved away from the corners of cars such that you can no longer see an indicator flashing in your direction from the side.

MoT failure (link) for cars since 1986
Regards
tim-b

They do get around regs with repeaters but I've seen cars where from certain positions you cannot see a flashing indicator. I doubt they make those cars such that they breach the regs but the regs do not stop kind of indicator blind spots.

FerociousDog
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby FerociousDog » 18 Oct 2020, 12:46pm

On most newer cars/vehicles the front light/day running light either dims or cancels when the indicator is applied.I like this as a driver and cyclist.The LED ones are especially good as I can see them clearer in bright sunlight.
I can't understand why BMW haven't incorporated this feature being a Prestige Marque....their indicators are practically impossible to spot even close up :wink:

thirdcrank
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Oct 2020, 12:58pm

Pebble wrote: ... I have often wondered if AUDI consider their array of blinding DRLs and silly indicators to be a form of jewellery that adorn their even sillier pretentious image.


Fashion ... er .... drives the market for many things. Even within the car trade this isn't restricted to Audi. A regular "facelift" is a cheap way for the manufacturers to have a superficial model change. Further down the line, it means that keeping an older car on the road will become prohibitively expensive that bit sooner if once-minor replacements become a big deal: eg trawling scrapyards for spares which need special tools to fit.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 18 Oct 2020, 1:19pm

PitPony wrote:Surely this would be a Cycling UK campaign that would be more useful and more achievable (I.e. would cost the government nothing) than some .

Cost the government nothing to alter UNECE regs and international styling trends?

Biospace
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Biospace » 18 Oct 2020, 2:06pm

My problems interpreting lights quickly and accurately are many. There are more than ever before in use at any one time (a good eg being DRLs), speeds are higher, there are several types of lighting (filament, arc, led, laser source, reflector and projector light spread), some lights which go on when cornering sharply and others off when indicating. Added to which car sizes and lighting styles are more diverse than ever.

Legislation has failed to keep up, so it's a confusing and therefore dangerous mess on the roads. MoT stations are supposed to adjust headlamp beams correctly, ime they (understandably, perhaps) adjust on the low side which can then be dangerous in itself, even more so when drivers try to re-adjust upwards and over-correct.

The German way of having remote height adjustment which has trickled down from luxury to all (but which the French had on their peasants' cars post-war) is great if drivers understand how to use them (I struggle to grasp how even the most ignorant doesn't get it) but I'm blinded as a cyclist and car driver more than ever today. The only upside when dazzled is that my bike front light is bright enough to attract attention and briefly dazzle back if the beam is directed up a little.

Traffic lights are so bright when used outside urban areas that you can be completely blinded by them at night. LED lights can leave a flashing trail across your peripheral vision. Range Rovers have been around since about 1970 but didn't start being a light hazard (plenty of other sorts though) until this century.

Back in the 70s and 80s there were cars with better headlights (to see with) than there are today, but they were in the minority because they ate into profits, they weren't a hazard to other road users. Drivers who needed fog lights invested in good ones and used them only when necessary. Tail lights were probably a bit dim in some cases, but the balance of all the others was about right - they didn't dazzle, were instantly understood and inexpensive to repair. It's often the very opposite of this today. The consumerist "I'm worth it" mentality is behind a lot of this craze, we'd all be better off without it. The idea that beyond a given 'brightness" making them brighter still makes seeing easier is quite incorrect.

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Phil Fouracre » 18 Oct 2020, 2:21pm

I must be getting old/slow! And there was me thinking that the OP was having a dig at the many drivers that don’t use them!!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 18 Oct 2020, 5:11pm

Biospace wrote:Traffic lights are so bright when used outside urban areas that you can be completely blinded by them at night. LED lights can leave a flashing trail across your peripheral vision. Range Rovers have been around since about 1970 but didn't start being a light hazard (plenty of other sorts though) until this century.

Agree strongly. IMO traffic lights should always be accompanied by a streetlight; similar to how level crossings with barriers are always lit (I realize this is for other reasons but both help reduce dazzle).

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Syd
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Syd » 18 Oct 2020, 5:30pm

A few years ago I owned an imported Mustang. As shipped from the USA it had amber front indictors, not visible from the side, and red rear indicates.

In order to pass the SVA test it had to have side repeaters fitted into the front wings and amber indicators on the rear. To achieve the latter amber bulbs were fitted into, was had been, the reserving lights and these were rewired to become indicators.

It untimely meant visible amber indicators at the expense of reversing lights.

fastpedaller
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby fastpedaller » 18 Oct 2020, 5:34pm

Biospace wrote: MoT stations are supposed to adjust headlamp beams correctly, ime they (understandably, perhaps) adjust on the low side which can then be dangerous in itself, even more so when drivers try to re-adjust upwards and over-correct.


My wife bought a new car 4 years ago, and (down our country lanes) was impossible to drive unless we used full beam - the dipped lights were aimed at a point on the road about 5metres away! We asked the main dealer to check them and he said they were ok....Hmm. So making sure the car was level i put bits of masking tape on our garage door and adjusted the lights. ll was good for our night driving (and as 'proof' nobody approaching flashed thier light in disgust) When it had its first MOT I asked them if the adjustment was ok - "yes,spot on' they said, 'which is unusual as most cars have them set far too low from new'. I then explained the problem we'd had, and the main dealer's dismissal of our concern.

fastpedaller
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby fastpedaller » 18 Oct 2020, 5:37pm

Syd wrote:A few years ago I owned an imported Mustang. As shipped from the USA it had amber front indictors, not visible from the side, and red rear indicates.

In order to pass the SVA test it had to have side repeaters fitted into the front wings and amber indicators on the rear. To achieve the latter amber bulbs were fitted into, was had been, the reserving lights and these were rewired to become indicators.

It untimely meant visible amber indicators at the expense of reversing lights.

I guess it was old enough to not be required to have reversing lights. I recall years ago folk having to spend fortunes on US imports to get compliance - I always thought it strange...... If I saw a huge US car in front and didn't know which way it was going, I'd just wait :lol: :lol:

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Syd
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Syd » 18 Oct 2020, 5:54pm

fastpedaller wrote:
Syd wrote:A few years ago I owned an imported Mustang. As shipped from the USA it had amber front indictors, not visible from the side, and red rear indicates.

In order to pass the SVA test it had to have side repeaters fitted into the front wings and amber indicators on the rear. To achieve the latter amber bulbs were fitted into, was had been, the reserving lights and these were rewired to become indicators.

It untimely meant visible amber indicators at the expense of reversing lights.

I guess it was old enough to not be required to have reversing lights. I recall years ago folk having to spend fortunes on US imports to get compliance - I always thought it strange...... If I saw a huge US car in front and didn't know which way it was going, I'd just wait :lol: :lol:

Yes, I found that strange too. If reversing I, personally, would use the hazard lights and carry out the manoeuvre slowly.

thirdcrank
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Oct 2020, 8:10pm

Although hazard lights - all indicators flashing together - are a widely used way of indicating an intention to reverse, that's not a permitted use of hazard lights. Nor is "I know I am on double yellow lines but I'll only be a minute."

Pebble
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Pebble » 18 Oct 2020, 8:28pm

thirdcrank wrote:Although hazard lights - all indicators flashing together - are a widely used way of indicating an intention to reverse, that's not a permitted use of hazard lights. Nor is "I know I am on double yellow lines but I'll only be a minute."

Definitely for the I know 'I shouldn't be parked here' but was completely unaware it may mean an intention to reverse.