Invisible indicators on new cars.

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pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby pwa » 20 Oct 2020, 12:46pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Surely surely the legislators could require basic controls to be the same on all vehicles :?

Once you have worked out where they are it is okay. It is only on vehicles you are unfamiliar with that you struggle. But really, once you have set the beam height to be correct for the cargo (or lack of it) there is no reason to keep fiddling with the beam adjuster.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 20 Oct 2020, 1:06pm

Hi,
Jdsk wrote:The basic controls are the same in the vast majority of cars.

But focussing on ease of safe use rather than enforced standardisation would be a good idea.

Jonathan

My 1983 motorcycle had loverly handle bar controls, levers and electric buttons.
I have largish hands with longish fingers, and struggled on other japanese motorcycles to reach the buttons.
I am not talking british or european controls here, you needed two hands on each arm for that stuff :)
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby fastpedaller » 20 Oct 2020, 6:33pm

pwa wrote:
fastpedaller wrote:
DaveReading wrote:It would never have occurred to me that I ought to be able to drive along unlit country lanes using only dipped headlights.

Depends whether you drive at a sensible speed or fast! With (the lights as the manufacturer set them) cars approaching it was like having no lights at all when they were dipped - To avoid danger to those approaching I didn't try them on beam :wink:

Modern cars have more refined distance adjustment, usually via a little wheel thingy, to allow you to adjust the pitch of the dipped lights. When I first used the dipped headlights on our Auris on a dark lane it was set very close, but turning the little wheel on the dash set it much further down the road so that even without resorting to full beam I could see well ahead. The idea of that adjuster is that if you put a lot of heavy stuff in the boot the back of the car can drop a little and the angle of the beam can rise too high, so you adjust it down to avoid dazzle. But then when you next use the car in the dark with nothing in the boot the beam is aimed too low so you adjust it up.


Yes - I'm well aware of that as I used to work in car design/development. As the car was provided to us, with the 'passengers on board adjuster' adjusted to put the beams as their highest, the light were still pointing 'at the ground' :lol: MOT stations should be checking/adjusting the beams with the adjuster set to its highest beam position, otherwise approaching cars may be dazzled if the driver adjusts it to a higher beam setting. The adjustment is there to enable the driver to adjust the beam lower when there is more luggage/passengers on board, as stated by a previous poster. It should never be possible (without putting weight in the car :lol: ) to adjust the beam higher than the regulated position.

pwa
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby pwa » 20 Oct 2020, 7:51pm

fastpedaller wrote:
pwa wrote:
fastpedaller wrote: Depends whether you drive at a sensible speed or fast! With (the lights as the manufacturer set them) cars approaching it was like having no lights at all when they were dipped - To avoid danger to those approaching I didn't try them on beam :wink:

Modern cars have more refined distance adjustment, usually via a little wheel thingy, to allow you to adjust the pitch of the dipped lights. When I first used the dipped headlights on our Auris on a dark lane it was set very close, but turning the little wheel on the dash set it much further down the road so that even without resorting to full beam I could see well ahead. The idea of that adjuster is that if you put a lot of heavy stuff in the boot the back of the car can drop a little and the angle of the beam can rise too high, so you adjust it down to avoid dazzle. But then when you next use the car in the dark with nothing in the boot the beam is aimed too low so you adjust it up.


Yes - I'm well aware of that as I used to work in car design/development. As the car was provided to us, with the 'passengers on board adjuster' adjusted to put the beams as their highest, the light were still pointing 'at the ground' :lol: MOT stations should be checking/adjusting the beams with the adjuster set to its highest beam position, otherwise approaching cars may be dazzled if the driver adjusts it to a higher beam setting. The adjustment is there to enable the driver to adjust the beam lower when there is more luggage/passengers on board, as stated by a previous poster. It should never be possible (without putting weight in the car :lol: ) to adjust the beam higher than the regulated position.

You didn't try letting air out of the back tyres and putting more in the front? :lol:

Our Auris (low mileage but second hand) came with the adjuster set at its lowest, which I didn't discover until I actually needed to light up the unlit lane as we left a country pub. As we left the last street lamp behind I discovered that I couldn't see far enough ahead. But the lane was empty so I just stopped, put the handbrake on, switched on the interior lights and found the adjuster. I ought to have found it before, of course.

Cowsham
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Cowsham » 20 Oct 2020, 8:34pm

You don't get away with maladjusted lights on our MOT's . If you go to the MOT centre and the computer says no that's it, another £18.50 out of your pocket for the retest please. There's no garages to fix it and pass you here -- your car is allowed to drive home if they consider it's reasonable to let you do that but there it must stay till retest day by which time you should have had the thing fixed.

Don't know how the English get away with having your local garage clown pass your car fit for the road.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 21 Oct 2020, 10:18am

Does that apply if the previous MOT has not expired? And where is 'here'?

Jdsk
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Jdsk » 21 Oct 2020, 10:27am

You're required to keep your vehicle roadworthy at all times, not only at the inspection. An appropriate MoT certificate is irrelevant if it isn't.

Jonathan

Cowsham
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Cowsham » 21 Oct 2020, 3:05pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Does that apply if the previous MOT has not expired? And where is 'here'?


Yes that's the case in northern Ireland -- if you take your car to the government run MOT center early before the current certificate expires and your car fails you may not be allowed to drive it home depending on the severity of the defect. You are not allowed to drive that car after that failed test. You are allowed to drive to the retest appointment and if your late for a booked test it's an automatic fail also. You must be at least 10 mins earlier than the time booked.
(no friendly garage to fix and pass it here )

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Cowsham » 21 Oct 2020, 3:08pm

Jdsk wrote:You're required to keep your vehicle roadworthy at all times, not only at the inspection. An appropriate MoT certificate is irrelevant if it isn't.

Jonathan


Still applies here too.

pwa
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby pwa » 21 Oct 2020, 3:34pm

Cowsham wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Does that apply if the previous MOT has not expired? And where is 'here'?


Yes that's the case in northern Ireland -- if you take your car to the government run MOT center early before the current certificate expires and your car fails you may not be allowed to drive it home depending on the severity of the defect. You are not allowed to drive that car after that failed test. You are allowed to drive to the retest appointment and if your late for a booked test it's an automatic fail also. You must be at least 10 mins earlier than the time booked.
(no friendly garage to fix and pass it here )

The procedure with my usual garage is that I drop a car in with the instruction that it needs its MOT, so please do whatever it takes to get it completely right, then do the official bit. A couple of weeks ago I took a car in and it failed on one minor point, namely a rubber cover on a suspension element was perished. The offending article was replaced before the MOT was issued. End result: car comes out with an MOT that it merits. The garage does not give MOTs to vehicles that are not right when the document is issued. No blind eyes are turned.

Jdsk
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby Jdsk » 21 Oct 2020, 3:35pm

Smart tactic.

Jonathan

thirdcrank
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Oct 2020, 5:02pm

I'm not familiar with the detail of the MOT regs but I believe that if a fault is discovered and rectified by the test centre while the vehicle is still there, then there is no extra testing charge. If it's taken away for repair following a fail and then returned for retesting, then there's a fee, the point being that if the vehicle stays at the test centre the items which passed won't have developed faults.

In practical terms, it doesn't matter if the vehicle is sorted then tested, or tested, sorted then retested, so long as it stays there.

tim-b
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby tim-b » 21 Oct 2020, 6:30pm

Hi
thirdcrank wrote:I'm not familiar with the detail of the MOT regs but I believe that if a fault is discovered and rectified by the test centre while the vehicle is still there, then there is no extra testing charge. If it's taken away for repair following a fail and then returned for retesting, then there's a fee, the point being that if the vehicle stays at the test centre the items which passed won't have developed faults.

In practical terms, it doesn't matter if the vehicle is sorted then tested, or tested, sorted then retested, so long as it stays there.

A fail should be recorded on the MoT history. If you were selling the car I think that an unblemished MoT record would be an easier sell with an associated service record, but otherwise I agree with you
For those concerned that a garage could be tempted to fail a car to get a lucrative repair job then you can get an independent MoT. Your local authority, bus company or similar will often MoT their own fleet alongside servicing. That organisation has to offer MoTs to the public but have no interest in working on your vehicle
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

pwa
Posts: 13276
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby pwa » 21 Oct 2020, 7:18pm

tim-b wrote:Hi
thirdcrank wrote:I'm not familiar with the detail of the MOT regs but I believe that if a fault is discovered and rectified by the test centre while the vehicle is still there, then there is no extra testing charge. If it's taken away for repair following a fail and then returned for retesting, then there's a fee, the point being that if the vehicle stays at the test centre the items which passed won't have developed faults.

In practical terms, it doesn't matter if the vehicle is sorted then tested, or tested, sorted then retested, so long as it stays there.

A fail should be recorded on the MoT history. If you were selling the car I think that an unblemished MoT record would be an easier sell with an associated service record, but otherwise I agree with you
For those concerned that a garage could be tempted to fail a car to get a lucrative repair job then you can get an independent MoT. Your local authority, bus company or similar will often MoT their own fleet alongside servicing. That organisation has to offer MoTs to the public but have no interest in working on your vehicle
Regards
tim-b

The garage that we use fixes anything amiss as they work through the test. I see nothing wrong in that. When the car is driven away with a new MOT it has had any issues dealt with. We get one charge for the MOT then whatever it costs to fix faults. A couple of years ago they found a corroded bracket holding the exhaust, which was doing its job okay but might give way at some point in the future. Mid test, they called me and I agreed with them replacing it, then they completed the MOT. I keep all the receipts for work done on cars so any future buyer can see what has been done.

FerociousDog
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Re: Invisible indicators on new cars.

Postby FerociousDog » 21 Oct 2020, 8:09pm

I always go to an MOT testing centre that does just that.No repairs just MOTs.They have no interest or need to “fail” a vehicle to gain extra income.Like any trade there are unscrupulous places who will just rip off the public.
The trouble with MOTs is no two centres will give the same results.There is too much room room for tester interpretation of the rules.This is why the MOT certificate only means the vehicle is up to standard at the time of the test.