High Performance Cars

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Pebble
Posts: 497
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Pebble » 15 Nov 2020, 1:19pm

Jdsk wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Have I rarely seen so many clichés and stereotypes in one thread?

Utterly depressing. And totally counterproductive to the necessary improvements.

Jonathan

when it comes to cars and driving stereotypes are never that far off the mark. True stereotyping in general is far from accurate with many examples of the opposite, but nevertheless they do tend to be true more often than not.

Jdsk
Posts: 6067
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Jdsk » 15 Nov 2020, 1:41pm

simonineaston wrote:Never understood our relationship with car performance and the legal requirement to obey speed limits. Seems to me that the message is clear - that laws are only there to be be broken. Even my modest car can potentially travel at twice the legal limit and if it weren't for its computer, is quite difficult to keep it below (say) the national limit on a motorway...
and yet, among my fondest driving memories are the mornings I swooshed along the M6, between Lancaster & Penrith, in cars like the Toyota MR2 or Mazda's MX5 *, at what I shall refer to as immodest speeds, around dawn, with no other car in sight...
* which, by today's standards of course, are "pathetically underpowered".

And understanding the psychology is crucial to making progress.

Lots of people like driving powerful cars.

And many people have never and will never directly experience a death or serious injury in eg a close relative or friend that was caused by exceeding the speed limit. Fortunately we have evidence-based methods so that we can understand what's happening without them needing to.

Jonathan

thirdcrank
Posts: 30856
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Nov 2020, 1:51pm

simonineaston wrote:... Even my modest car can potentially travel at twice the legal limit and if it weren't for its computer, is quite difficult to keep it below (say) the national limit on a motorway...


How does this bit work? Are you saying it's hard to avoid the urge to to put your foot down or that maintaining a given speed takes too much skill/ concentration?

sirmy
Posts: 605
Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 10:53am

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby sirmy » 15 Nov 2020, 1:56pm

Maybe, as part of the phasing out of the sales of petrol and diesel cars, those with engines bigger than 1 litre should be stopped now. Maybe the reduced power available might save a few lives

peetee
Posts: 2888
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby peetee » 15 Nov 2020, 2:17pm

High performance is a relative term. My first car was a Polo and now 30 years later I drive another Polo which is far more capable than the first both in terms of safety for occupants and third party and in its road holding, speed potential and frugality.
In my experience the majority of drivers drive faster than they did 30 years ago. That’s not to say they are braking any laws, more that the vehicles they drive can deal with bends, gradients and poor surfaces far better than 20th century cars. So it’s fair to say that the majority are driving high performance vehicles.
Next time we are out riding a lane and a fast approaching car puts the frighters up you it’s worth considering whether the driver was even aware of how much the vehicle’s dynamics were isolating them from the Intimidating/threatening/risky situation they were creating for others.
High performance can be a good thing. The problem lies with those that assume their capability and the laws of physics will magically adapt to match the car and that everything else on the road advances at the same rate.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

Psamathe
Posts: 12260
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Psamathe » 15 Nov 2020, 2:19pm

sirmy wrote:Maybe, as part of the phasing out of the sales of petrol and diesel cars, those with engines bigger than 1 litre should be stopped now. Maybe the reduced power available might save a few lives

The electric car aspect is interesting. I've not researched it but I understood that even today battery/max. distance is a limitation (unless you go hybrid in which case you're excreting carbon). And reduce your speed whilst using battery and the range has to increase dramatically. Probably not a feature your car salesman will push but prominent displays "miles remaining" with hints about reducing speed (e.g. "miles remaining 65 to 120, 65 at current speed" - made clear to avoid distracting driver, there are experts on clarity for driver displays).

Ian

Jdsk
Posts: 6067
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Jdsk » 15 Nov 2020, 2:24pm

Range awareness and anxiety with EVs might affect driver behaviour in choice of speed.

As might the different characteristics of the prime mover, with that relatively high power at low engine speed as mentioned above.

Jonathan

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8785
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Nov 2020, 2:43pm

simonineaston wrote:Never understood our relationship with car performance and the legal requirement to obey speed limits. Seems to me that the message is clear - that laws are only there to be be broken. Even my modest car can potentially travel at twice the legal limit and if it weren't for its computer, is quite difficult to keep it below (say) the national limit on a motorway...
and yet, among my fondest driving memories are the mornings I swooshed along the M6, between Lancaster & Penrith, in cars like the Toyota MR2 or Mazda's MX5 *, at what I shall refer to as immodest speeds, around dawn, with no other car in sight...
* which, by today's standards of course, are "pathetically underpowered".

An MX5 or MR2 does not need to be driven at immodest speeds to enjoy the drive - that's the point of them, and for many enthusiastic drivers that's enough.

rfryer
Posts: 779
Joined: 7 Feb 2013, 3:58pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby rfryer » 15 Nov 2020, 3:52pm

thirdcrank wrote:
simonineaston wrote:... Even my modest car can potentially travel at twice the legal limit and if it weren't for its computer, is quite difficult to keep it below (say) the national limit on a motorway...


How does this bit work? Are you saying it's hard to avoid the urge to to put your foot down or that maintaining a given speed takes too much skill/ concentration?

I can't answer for Simon, but my take on it is that many speed limits coincide with my notion of what is a sensible speed. Such limits are ready to follow, because it's what I would do anyway.

However, on a quiet motorway, in a powerful, well insulated car with good brakes, it would be possible to go well over the speed limit in relative safety. In fact, the sensation of speed would be much less that in a small hatchback at 60mph. It's in such situations that speed limits are less easy to stick to.

iandusud
Posts: 720
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby iandusud » 15 Nov 2020, 4:31pm

rfryer wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
simonineaston wrote:... Even my modest car can potentially travel at twice the legal limit and if it weren't for its computer, is quite difficult to keep it below (say) the national limit on a motorway...


How does this bit work? Are you saying it's hard to avoid the urge to to put your foot down or that maintaining a given speed takes too much skill/ concentration?

I can't answer for Simon, but my take on it is that many speed limits coincide with my notion of what is a sensible speed. Such limits are ready to follow, because it's what I would do anyway.

However, on a quiet motorway, in a powerful, well insulated car with good brakes, it would be possible to go well over the speed limit in relative safety. In fact, the sensation of speed would be much less that in a small hatchback at 60mph. It's in such situations that speed limits are less easy to stick to.


I would add however that keeping max speed down reduces emissions so even if say 80mph were a safe speed on a clear motorway it is still better from an environmental point of view to drive at a lower speed. In fact I suspect that if the national speed limit on motorways was dropped to 60mph it would make very little difference to most motorway journey times. I would happily advocate such a speed limit, anything we can do to reduce carbon emissions and tackle climate change is good in my book.

thirdcrank
Posts: 30856
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Nov 2020, 4:45pm

iandusud wrote:
rfryer wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
How does this bit work? Are you saying it's hard to avoid the urge to to put your foot down or that maintaining a given speed takes too much skill/ concentration?

I can't answer for Simon, but my take on it is that many speed limits coincide with my notion of what is a sensible speed. Such limits are ready to follow, because it's what I would do anyway.

However, on a quiet motorway, in a powerful, well insulated car with good brakes, it would be possible to go well over the speed limit in relative safety. In fact, the sensation of speed would be much less that in a small hatchback at 60mph. It's in such situations that speed limits are less easy to stick to.


I would add however that keeping max speed down reduces emissions so even if say 80mph were a safe speed on a clear motorway it is still better from an environmental point of view to drive at a lower speed. In fact I suspect that if the national speed limit on motorways was dropped to 60mph it would make very little difference to most motorway journey times. I would happily advocate such a speed limit, anything we can do to reduce carbon emissions and tackle climate change is good in my book.


I do know what it's like to drive a fairly powerful car on a clear motorway. I have heard - on here and elsewhere - plenty of discussion about speed limits. I'm still interested to know why it's difficult to drive a modern car at a given speed as in "below the speed limit."

kwackers
Posts: 15464
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby kwackers » 15 Nov 2020, 4:50pm

thirdcrank wrote:I do know what it's like to drive a fairly powerful car on a clear motorway. I have heard - on here and elsewhere - plenty of discussion about speed limits. I'm still interested to know why it's difficult to drive a modern car at a given speed as in "below the speed limit."

It isn't.
But the number of people who apparently can't obey a speed limit because modern cars "make it hard" (as opposed to my view where I think they can't drive) is quite high.

iandusud
Posts: 720
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby iandusud » 15 Nov 2020, 4:53pm

kwackers wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I do know what it's like to drive a fairly powerful car on a clear motorway. I have heard - on here and elsewhere - plenty of discussion about speed limits. I'm still interested to know why it's difficult to drive a modern car at a given speed as in "below the speed limit."

It isn't.

Wot he said

Tompsk
Posts: 97
Joined: 6 Nov 2014, 9:35am

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Tompsk » 15 Nov 2020, 5:32pm

There are unintended consequences of speed limiters on cars. If they are linked to the local speed limit (i.e the speed limit automatically change as they drive from say a 50mph area to a 30mph area) the driver can get into the habit of permanently driving with their foot to the floor - knowing of course that it is now impossible to exceed the speed limit and that they will only lengthen their journey time if they do not drive 'flat out' as they can't make up time by speeding (a little) when the road is clear. This can lead to some drivers (who would otherwise slow down to lower than the maximum permitted speed) driving less safely.

Psamathe
Posts: 12260
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Psamathe » 15 Nov 2020, 5:35pm

Tompsk wrote:There are unintended consequences of speed limiters on cars. If they are linked to the local speed limit (i.e the speed limit automatically change as they drive from say a 50mph area to a 30mph area) the driver can get into the habit of permanently driving with their foot to the floor - knowing of course that it is now impossible to exceed the speed limit and that they will only lengthen their journey time if they do not drive 'flat out' as they can't make up time by speeding (a little) when the road is clear. This can lead to some drivers (who would otherwise slow down to lower than the maximum permitted speed) driving less safely.

Maybe instead of reducing the speed of the car they automatically send the evidence to the Police automated system so you can get a fine & points delivered next day.

Ian