High Performance Cars

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Jdsk
Posts: 6136
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Jdsk » 18 Nov 2020, 9:28am

Pebble wrote:Having recently acquired a state of the art high tech car with all manner of driver aids, I'm far from impressed, the autonomous anti collision braking system goes off unexpectedly for no reason, the autonomous parking feature can't find anywhere to park in a near empty car park, and even the speed sign recognition feature fails more often than not, the new 20mph limit has it totally bamboozled.

What happens when the automatic braking activates... does it bring the car to a halt? Does it tell you why it thinks it did it?

I don't know that there was a production car sold in the UK that was claimed to be able to find a parking place... what is it, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby kwackers » 18 Nov 2020, 9:32am

People can dissect a self driving car video as much as they like and play "what if'" and "what about" but they'd be missing an important point.

So far self driving cars have clocked up 100's of millions of real world miles between them (and tens of billions in simulations) and they've proven to be an order of magnitude safer than apes.

Are they perfect? Of course not and there are undoubtedly many scenarios they can't handle particularly well yet but they're built on data and the more data they have the better they get ("experience" if you like).
Tesla have recently enabled a fairly high level of automation on their cars, they'll be sucking up terabytes of data from their cars now and every hiccup will be being used to improve their systems, in their labs the simulations will be replaying those hiccups millions of times over and over until they get them right. From what I can gather updates are coming out pretty much weekly at the moment.

Ten years ago we barely had cars that could steer in lane, today you can buy an off the shelf car that will drive you to work and back with minimal intervention, where will we be in another 10?

Jdsk
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Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Jdsk » 18 Nov 2020, 9:37am

Exactly.

Apart from the existing evidence for safety...

Jonathan

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simonineaston
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Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby simonineaston » 18 Nov 2020, 9:38am

Although my recent car experience has been more positive than pebble's, (I have a new-ish so-called mini) I have some sympathy in that the computer-controlled elements of the vehicle almost get in the way of driving. My previous car, an excellent little diesel Lupo, had no electronic driver's aids whatsoever (other than a minute lcd-disply clock...) and was much more staightforward to drive. The current jobbie is forever beeping at me to remind me of some obscure issue or other, most of which passes straight over my head. Still have to find my own parking spaces, though...
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)

PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby PDQ Mobile » 18 Nov 2020, 9:57am

Oldjohnw wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:You're old fashioned! :wink:


Without a doubt. I'm off to get my pony and trap out. It can be driverless as it knows everywhere I go.


We will not ask where.

Runs on solar energy and the waste is innocous and grows lettuces.
You should be careful with your trap though or you'll get called "old fashioned". :wink: :wink:

Edit. Or worse. :shock:

peetee
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Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby peetee » 18 Nov 2020, 10:05am

I do wonder if, when self-driving cars become a thing on our streets, some human drivers will take risks because they see them as being over cautious - in much the same way as they would with cyclists and learner drivers, for example; hasty overtaking, driving too close.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

kwackers
Posts: 15468
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby kwackers » 18 Nov 2020, 10:11am

peetee wrote:I do wonder if, when self-driving cars become a thing on our streets, some human drivers will take risks because they see them as being over cautious - in much the same way as they would with cyclists and learner drivers, for example; hasty overtaking, driving too close.

They already do - where over cautious means driving at or near to the speed limit.
Loads of great examples of such behaviour on YouTube.


Next big gov announcement: from 2040 all new cars must be self driving with dual mode vehicles banned by 2045.
(TBH I suspect insurance costs of DIY driving will be the limiting factor in the future - that and the need for a license).

Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Nov 2020, 10:14am

PDQ Mobile wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:In busy traffic the driverless car would have stayed behind the cyclist, unable to get out into the passing lane because of an endless stream of traffic in that lane and the unwillingness of the control system to pull out at the first sign of a gap, the way a confident driver might. Manual over-ride would have been employed. But which is right? Being stuck but safe behind the cyclist for five minutes, or being more pushy and assertive and edging out into the flow of traffic in the adjacent lane? It would be better if the control systems of different vehicles interacted so that one vehicle would slow to let another out.

You mean when this tech becomes endemic the AI starts cooperating to mutual benefit, hmmm, you might be on to something there. I like your window :wink:

I think Tesla and others will probably push on with developing the technology :D

In the video the driver changes the view on the screen as the situation develops and before the car does anything. (That my small phone screen shows)
And after the cyclists are passed he changes back to "full road ahead view".
This suggests that either the situation is pre- planned or that the driver saw and anticipated BEFORE the auto system did.
Which suggests something?

As for all the auto cars communicating with each other, in some sort of optimal road "ballet", I remain hugely sceptical about the ability of even multiple sensors on every vehicle to deliver such a complexity with anything even approaching acceptability. And certainly nothing as complex as that which human drivers on busy motorways achieve every rush hour daily in all weather conditions.

Not to mention a 100% reliability of inter vehicle communication over hundreds of vehicles across thousands of square meters.

IMV fantasy land.
A human settlement on Mars is more feasible! And less likely, or desirable. :shock:

Lots of things we take for granted were once fantasy.

It'll be here soon enough.

Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Nov 2020, 10:15am

kwackers wrote:
peetee wrote:I do wonder if, when self-driving cars become a thing on our streets, some human drivers will take risks because they see them as being over cautious - in much the same way as they would with cyclists and learner drivers, for example; hasty overtaking, driving too close.

They already do - where over cautious means driving at or near to the speed limit.
Loads of great examples of such behaviour on YouTube.


Next big gov announcement: from 2040 all new cars must be self driving with dual mode vehicles banned by 2045.
(TBH I suspect insurance costs of DIY driving will be the limiting factor in the future - that and the need for a license).

DIY driving to be confined to designated tracks etc where the humans can happily collide to their hearts' content.

StephenW
Posts: 158
Joined: 22 Sep 2010, 11:33am

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby StephenW » 18 Nov 2020, 10:25am

Why do people drive quickly?

I think it's:
1. Impatience
2. A desire for excitement, danger, freedom etc.

This appetite for risk varies a lot between people, but I think it is fair to say that it is usually strongest in young men. There are various outlets for this urge for risk, and some are much better than others. I think mountain biking is one of the best, and fast driving definitely one of the worse ones.

If we seek to squash down the opportunities for risk-taking in one area of life, will it pop up somewhere else, perhaps in a worse form?

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Nov 2020, 10:27am

StephenW wrote:Why do people drive quickly?

I think it's:
1. Impatience
2. A desire for excitement, danger, freedom etc.

This appetite for risk varies a lot between people, but I think it is fair to say that it is usually strongest in young men. There are various outlets for this urge for risk, and some are much better than others. I think mountain biking is one of the best, and fast driving definitely one of the worse ones.

If we seek to squash down the opportunities for risk-taking in one area of life, will it pop up somewhere else, perhaps in a worse form?

It's a fair observation I think. Statistically, young men are by far the most likely to participate in accidents, I believe.

Jdsk
Posts: 6136
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Jdsk » 18 Nov 2020, 10:32am

StephenW wrote:Why do people drive quickly?
I think it's:
1. Impatience
2. A desire for excitement, danger, freedom etc.

I'd include the belief that they can get where they want to be sooner by doing so. And pleasure/ fun in 2

StephenW wrote:If we seek to squash down the opportunities for risk-taking in one area of life, will it pop up somewhere else, perhaps in a worse form?

Not necessarily.

NB the repeatedly expressed desire by a few people in this forum to stop other people doing things. We should always be clear why. The risk to others on public roads is a pretty clear example for why freedom might be appropriately restricted.

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby Jdsk » 18 Nov 2020, 10:34am

Bonefishblues wrote:Statistically, young men are by far the most likely to participate in accidents, I believe.

Yes, those are enormous risk factors for harm both to themselves and others. Having someone else in the car adds to them.

Jonathan

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4089
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby PDQ Mobile » 18 Nov 2020, 10:35am

Bonefishblues wrote:Lots of things we take for granted were once fantasy.

It'll be here soon enough.


Too easy just to write that.
Leccy "too cheap to meter" too, no doubt!

I try not to take anything for granted.
It often ends in disappointment.

As for "soon arriving at a junction near you", I personally very much doubt it, in the total control form you foresee.

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: High Performance Cars

Postby reohn2 » 18 Nov 2020, 10:45am

Oldjohnw wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:You're old fashioned! :wink:


Without a doubt. I'm off to get my pony and trap out. It can be driverless as it knows everywhere I go.

Don't forget to clean up after yer horse and take it home,the droppings make a right mess of bike tyres,and it's good for yer roses or so I'm told :)
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