'Professional' drivers.

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Boring_Username
Posts: 110
Joined: 2 Mar 2017, 2:38pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Boring_Username » 9 Dec 2020, 9:45pm

In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).

pwa
Posts: 13648
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby pwa » 9 Dec 2020, 10:10pm

ChrisP100 wrote:
pwa wrote:
ChrisP100 wrote:People who drive for a living are some of the least courteous, quite often downright dangerous drivers on the road in my experience. Maybe it's complacency or sense of entitlement, I don't know.


I stopped reading at that point, knowing as I do people who drive for a living and who don't deserve that insult.


Fair enough.

Maybe if you'd read on you might understand why I was a bit miffed to say the least.

(and it wasn't intended as an insult - just an observation)

I think anyone who has ever cycled on roads will agree that there are some seriously deficient drivers earning a living behind a steering wheel. But I personally know some who are not like that. Let's give the bad ones the criticism they deserve, while at the same time recognising that there are decent ones too. I met a Tesco delivery van on a narrow lane a few days ago. The driver pulled over to make room for me, even though I thought we had room to pass without him doing that. I waved my thanks and he waved back with a smile. I expect your annoyance is based on genuine experience and is justified, but it isn't fair to have a go at absolutely everyone who drives for a living just because you have had bad experiences with some who drive for a living.

ChrisP100
Posts: 69
Joined: 24 Sep 2020, 9:00am

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby ChrisP100 » 9 Dec 2020, 10:44pm

pwa wrote:
ChrisP100 wrote:
pwa wrote:I stopped reading at that point, knowing as I do people who drive for a living and who don't deserve that insult.


Fair enough.

Maybe if you'd read on you might understand why I was a bit miffed to say the least.

(and it wasn't intended as an insult - just an observation)

I think anyone who has ever cycled on roads will agree that there are some seriously deficient drivers earning a living behind a steering wheel. But I personally know some who are not like that. Let's give the bad ones the criticism they deserve, while at the same time recognising that there are decent ones too. I met a Tesco delivery van on a narrow lane a few days ago. The driver pulled over to make room for me, even though I thought we had room to pass without him doing that. I waved my thanks and he waved back with a smile. I expect your annoyance is based on genuine experience and is justified, but it isn't fair to have a go at absolutely everyone who drives for a living just because you have had bad experiences with some who drive for a living.


I was still a little bit shaken up when I wrote the OP, and didn't really word it properly. I certainly didn't intend to tar all professional drivers with the same brush. Having done a fair amount of driving as part of my job in the past covering the length and breadth of the UK (BE, C1, D1E) I understand what other professional drivers go through, and it was more an observation that some people who drive for a living should really be better drivers.

DaveReading
Posts: 225
Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 5:37pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby DaveReading » 9 Dec 2020, 10:45pm

Boring_Username wrote:In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).

For someone who's in charge of a ton or more of moving metal, aggression is the last characteristic you want.

pwa
Posts: 13648
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby pwa » 10 Dec 2020, 5:34am

ChrisP100 wrote:
pwa wrote:
ChrisP100 wrote:
Fair enough.

Maybe if you'd read on you might understand why I was a bit miffed to say the least.

(and it wasn't intended as an insult - just an observation)

I think anyone who has ever cycled on roads will agree that there are some seriously deficient drivers earning a living behind a steering wheel. But I personally know some who are not like that. Let's give the bad ones the criticism they deserve, while at the same time recognising that there are decent ones too. I met a Tesco delivery van on a narrow lane a few days ago. The driver pulled over to make room for me, even though I thought we had room to pass without him doing that. I waved my thanks and he waved back with a smile. I expect your annoyance is based on genuine experience and is justified, but it isn't fair to have a go at absolutely everyone who drives for a living just because you have had bad experiences with some who drive for a living.


I was still a little bit shaken up when I wrote the OP, and didn't really word it properly. I certainly didn't intend to tar all professional drivers with the same brush. Having done a fair amount of driving as part of my job in the past covering the length and breadth of the UK (BE, C1, D1E) I understand what other professional drivers go through, and it was more an observation that some people who drive for a living should really be better drivers.

Understood. And we are on the same wavelength now. Like you, I have often had some driving as part of my job, and if I am honest I must say that occasionally I have had to do a bit of self reflection when my driving hasn't been as careful as I like to think it is. But I have always intended driving well, and with some drivers you do wonder if they care at all. And these days, with all the extra delivery driver jobs, there must be a lot of newcomers making a living from driving. Many of them in an agitated state because of the workload and pressure of time. Driving whilst in a poor state of mind is bound to lead to rubbish driving. Some drivers are rubbish whatever their workload, and they are just in the wrong job.

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 14917
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 10 Dec 2020, 7:04am

pwa wrote:
ChrisP100 wrote:People who drive for a living are some of the least courteous, quite often downright dangerous drivers on the road in my experience. Maybe it's complacency or sense of entitlement, I don't know.


I stopped reading at that point, knowing as I do people who drive for a living and who don't deserve that insult.

Many do, many do not, he did not write 'all'. Often enough the t-word is appropriate

Whatabout the many who park on cycle ways and footways to save walking a few steps? What can be done about these scum?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 14917
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 10 Dec 2020, 7:33am

Facts are: they kill many of us. We kill none of them
..
As a careful driver I did not mind being perceived as 'guilty until proved innocent'
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Jdsk » 10 Dec 2020, 10:20am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Facts are: they kill many of us. We kill none of them

There's an enormous logical flaw in that analysis: the same people might at different times be cyclists, pedestrians, unpaid drivers and paid drivers.

The division of people in advance into them and us doesn't match the real world. And doesn't offer any practical routes to reducing deaths and other harms from "accidents".

It shouldn't be necessary to have to spell this out but it clearly is. People driving vehicles kill people who aren't. And the opposite is very very uncommon.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 10 Dec 2020, 10:31am, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
Posts: 40642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby reohn2 » 10 Dec 2020, 10:21am

Boring_Username wrote:In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).


IME I can't judge which will be the next dangerous driver,so my approach is never to trust any other driver,always expect the unexpected and accept that every other driver on the road is out to kill me :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------

Oldjohnw
Posts: 5747
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Oldjohnw » 10 Dec 2020, 10:35am

I don't assume that other drivers are out to kill me. I do assume that they might make an error of judgement or have some momentary distraction. Just like all of us at some time. Bar none.

He who is without sin.....
John

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Jdsk » 10 Dec 2020, 10:38am

Oldjohnw wrote:I don't assume that other drivers are out to kill me. I do assume that they might make an error of judgement or have some momentary distraction. Just like all of us at some time. Bar none.

Same here. Both on wariness without paranoia and on my own mistakes.

Jonathan

ChrisP100
Posts: 69
Joined: 24 Sep 2020, 9:00am

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby ChrisP100 » 10 Dec 2020, 10:51am

reohn2 wrote:
Boring_Username wrote:In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).


IME I can't judge which will be the next dangerous driver,so my approach is never to trust any other driver,always expect the unexpected and accept that every other driver on the road is out to kill me :wink:


That is something I do as a driver, a cyclist and a pedestrian. I find eye contact to be a pretty good indication that someone has seen you, but it doesn't always mean they are going to react as you might expect them to.

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 14917
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 10 Dec 2020, 10:56am

Often best not to make eye contact, keep them guessing
See live thread about flashing headlights, apparently that is done for all sorts of wrong purposes :?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Jdsk » 10 Dec 2020, 10:59am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Often best not to make eye contact, keep them guessing

This is dangerous advice and is contrary to what most teachers recommend.

As in earlier posts: make eye contact but be prepared for the worst.

Jonathan

Oldjohnw
Posts: 5747
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: 'Professional' drivers.

Postby Oldjohnw » 10 Dec 2020, 11:05am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Often best not to make eye contact, keep them guessing
See live thread about flashing headlights, apparently that is done for all sorts of wrong purposes :?


That sounds like the inconsiderate driving you deplore in others.
John