Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Marcus Aurelius
Posts: 1663
Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 16 Dec 2020, 5:22pm

Boring_Username wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:If you do not want wheel hangers and drafters I suggest you do what everyone else does and put 50, 100 or 200m between you and them as you overtake then revert to your normal pace.


Is it common for recreational cyclists to vary their power output like this?


Only the ones who are having pro peloton fantasies. It’s easier just to slow down a bit until the unwanted guest disappears. It’s really not fun having an unknown rider sitting closely behind you.

alexnharvey
Posts: 1439
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby alexnharvey » 16 Dec 2020, 6:53pm

Boring_Username wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:If you do not want wheel hangers and drafters I suggest you do what everyone else does and put 50, 100 or 200m between you and them as you overtake then revert to your normal pace.


Is it common for recreational cyclists to vary their power output like this?


No, it would be a change to avoid their dread wheelhugger.

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 5223
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby foxyrider » 16 Dec 2020, 9:14pm

come on everyone -Alex has invited us all to go sit on his wheel :lol:
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

thirdcrank
Posts: 30529
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Dec 2020, 10:12pm

This thread has had me thinking. First let me say with reference to the seven ages of man, these days I'd need a motorbike to get on anybody's wheel and a big one to stay there.

I have a pretty clear memory of the first time I did it - second age of a cyclist, one up from a trike like squeaker's. I joined the A1 at Hook Moor one Sunday afternoon when I would have been at the most 14, possibly only 13 and new to cycling. I cannot remember how, but I ended up tucked in behind two strong riders with sprints on sprint carriers, obviously riding back from a TT. Both on fixed, steady as a rock and riding two abreast. That length of the A1 was still single carriageway so it shows how traffic has changed. I hung in there, struggling a bit on the gentle uphill bits but appreciating the benefit of being towed along on the flat. They chatted to each other but not to me. When we reached Wetherby and I peeled off right, along York Road, one of them gave me a friendly farewell with some sort of compliment on my riding and I could have floated on air.

There's a big difference between that type of cycling and chasing along for a couple of hundred yards to prove something before blowing up.

IME there aren't many opportunities for it. ie A couple of strong riders on the road at the same time making it possible, but good when it is.

I don't remember ever doing this with a woman rider. BB had left Morley before we moved here but had she wanted to drop me, perhaps it might have been "Liquorice, Mick?" rather than Mac.

@ eileithyia

We live and learn. Or I try to. Until I read this, I'd have wrongly assumed that if other, less experienced female cyclists had raised this, you'd have been the one explaining what we now have to call drafting. But how wrong one can be. I don't believe in reincarnation but if we do get another go and if I come back as a rejuvenated rider rather than a dinosaur I'll bear this in mind.

I practised social-distancing long, long before Covid-19. Years ago, I asked on here about stopping to help female riders. Not any more. Eyes front and "pass on the other side. "

Grandad
Posts: 1222
Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 12:22am
Location: Kent

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby Grandad » 17 Dec 2020, 12:31am

Riding one of my earliest 200k audaxes I left the first control immediately behind a group that included a lady. I assumed that it would therefore be a slow group and that I would soon overtake them. By mid afternnoon I was desperately trying to stay with them.......my introduction to the legendary Liz Creese.

alexnharvey
Posts: 1439
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby alexnharvey » 17 Dec 2020, 8:39am

foxyrider wrote:come on everyone -Alex has invited us all to go sit on his wheel :lol:


Say, ain't we cycling down the same street together on the very same day?

but you can't call me Al.

rareposter
Posts: 242
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby rareposter » 17 Dec 2020, 9:17am

thirdcrank wrote:I practised social-distancing long, long before Covid-19. Years ago, I asked on here about stopping to help female riders. Not any more. Eyes front and "pass on the other side. "


What was the response to that question? Genuinely interested what answers it got to result in an outcome of "eyes front, pass on other side".

Personally I think it's a balance. A group of 6 "club cyclists" (by which I mean the ones that generally look like they know what they're doing) at the side fixing a mechanical and looking reasonably competent - probably no real need for me to stop. A group of 6 dressed in the classic weekender attire of jogging bottoms and T-shirts looking a bit more confused, I'd probably ask.

Lone rider, I might say "are you OK, have you got everything you need?" which avoids any connotations of sexism or assuming that a rider might not be capable but leaves the door open for them to say "actually, have you got...?"

Equally, if it's something like Richmond Park and the rider has already had 84 passers-by go "are you OK?!" then it's probably not necessary for me to add to that.

Related to that last point - many years ago at a 24hr race, a mate was doing it solo. No issues, plodding around coping fine until about 2am when he was like "I can barely ride, I'm falling asleep on the bike, I'll just have a lie down". Warm night so he lay down in a comfy spot and was almost immediately accosted by a passing rider who slammed on the brakes, rushed over and shook him asking if he was OK, had he fallen, did he need a medic...? :lol:
Literally every rider passing was shouting "YOU OK?!" and he was more awake then ever.

thirdcrank
Posts: 30529
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Dec 2020, 10:55am

First a tale about passing riders showing concern:-

In my CRN /RtoR days, one of my many hobby horses was poor ironworks in the carriageway. One sunny summer morning out towards Boston Spa, I stopped to look at a gully grate - I cannot remember why - but as I leant over it, a big bunch of roadies swept by. It must have looked as though I was fetching up. Somebody at the front asked if I was OK and then it went back through the group "He's just looking at the grate." A chap at the back called "That's what they all say!" as he passed.

Here's the earlier thread about stopping to help women.

What should I have done, ladies?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3135#p20129

Here's something of mine lifted from a thread about fitting tyres. I omitted to mention it was trying to snow and I was using a bus shelter while I worked on my bike.

I've probably posted before that a decade ago I had a puncture (rear wheel, of course) as it was growing dark in Thorpe Willoughby. It was my winter bike, with Sachs hubgear + drum brake, so getting the wheel in and out was the usual faff. A lone lady cyclist stopped and very diffidently asked if I was OK, adding that she was sure I was OK but she felt she should ask. I was OK , but thoroughly fed up and her genuine show of concern really cheered me up. It takes a fair bit of bottle for a lone woman to stop in a dark and lonely place to offer help to a complete stranger. A true good Samaritan. Thanks again to that lady (Claud Butler Courette with many upgrades.) Shame :evil: on whoever it was who had spurned her help before.

viewtopic.php?p=487151#p487151

slowster
Posts: 1798
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby slowster » 17 Dec 2020, 11:41pm

If I see a cyclist who looks like they may be in some difficulty when I am riding I almost invariably slow down (or stop) and ask if they are OK. I don't discriminate between between riders based on sex, age, type of bike, what they are wearing or whether or not they look like a 'proper' or 'serious' cyclist, because in my experience those factors are not always reliable indicators of whether someone does or does not need help. For example, I once stopped and helped someone on an expensive road bike with deep section carbon wheels. He had punctured and discovered that the valve stem on his spare tube was too short for the rim, so I gave him a glueless patch.

If the person says that they are OK, I ride on and leave them to get on with it. I think that is the important point: it's not a binary choice between 'eyes front' and ignoring vs. being an interfering busybody (and - in the context of this thread - possibly creepy if the cyclist is a lone female). Asking if someone is OK gives them the opportunity to decide whether ask for help or not.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

andrewwillans49
Posts: 96
Joined: 11 Aug 2018, 7:38am

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby andrewwillans49 » 18 Dec 2020, 6:40am

Very creepy for a man to draught a solo unknown female cyclist, and not cricket to draught a man either. I believe there are exeptions for following fairly close. Occasionally when knocking along nearly flat out I might happen upon another cyclist but not have enough in the tank to pass swiftly. I'd then leave a 25 yard gap, recover, deep breath then attempt to pass with gusto. I wouldn't draught though. If its the converse I don't mind, I certainly don't feel intimidated.
Confession. 1996 id just started " proper " cycling and had no idea of cycling etiquette. 200 km audax from Stevenage to Lavenham and back.( Thanks Jim Brown , organiser). I left with the last "fast" group. I believe Willesden Cycling . They flew along and I sat on the back of them, and draught for 30 odd miles to Thaxted then got dropped. At their insistence I did a turn on the front for about a mile. I was flat out while they chatted. I know better now. So I'd put it that some cyclists just don't know any better.

andrewwillans49
Posts: 96
Joined: 11 Aug 2018, 7:38am

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby andrewwillans49 » 18 Dec 2020, 6:40am

Very creepy for a man to draught a solo unknown female cyclist, and not cricket to draught a man either. I believe there are exeptions for following fairly close. Occasionally when knocking along nearly flat out I might happen upon another cyclist but not have enough in the tank to pass swiftly. I'd then leave a 25 yard gap, recover, deep breath then attempt to pass with gusto. I wouldn't draught though. If its the converse I don't mind, I certainly don't feel intimidated.
Confession. 1996 id just started " proper " cycling and had no idea of cycling etiquette. 200 km audax from Stevenage to Lavenham and back.( Thanks Jim Brown , organiser). I left with the last "fast" group. I believe Willesden Cycling . They flew along and I sat on the back of them, and draught for 30 odd miles to Thaxted then got dropped. At their insistence I did a turn on the front for about a mile. I was flat out while they chatted. I know better now. So I'd put it that some cyclists just don't know any better.

thirdcrank
Posts: 30529
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Dec 2020, 8:59am

That two-up there has reminded me of "gentlemen's" races, which used to be run over the winter, a bit like pro-am golf. A wealthy amateur could ride a two-up time trial with a pro. IIRC, BB's autobiography includes an account of her riding one, possibly in Paris.

Talking of good form, personal opinions are best recognised as such. IMO
=========================================
PS Cannot link to any accounts, as with so many things it looks as though the yanks have re-invented it.

PPS For anybody who doesn't know who BB was, here's a pic of BB with her bike.

OIP (3).jpg
Not Beryl Burton
OIP (3).jpg (17.95 KiB) Viewed 233 times

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby Jdsk » 18 Dec 2020, 9:07am

slowster wrote:If I see a cyclist who looks like they may be in some difficulty when I am riding I almost invariably slow down (or stop) and ask if they are OK. I don't discriminate between between riders based on sex, age, type of bike, what they are wearing or whether or not they look like a 'proper' or 'serious' cyclist, because in my experience those factors are not always reliable indicators of whether someone does or does not need help. For example, I once stopped and helped someone on an expensive road bike with deep section carbon wheels. He had punctured and discovered that the valve stem on his spare tube was too short for the rim, so I gave him a glueless patch.

That's kind. I try and do the same, and check with everyone who's working on their bike at the roadside.

Jonathan

Jamesh
Posts: 1663
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Jumping on a wheel...... musings....

Postby Jamesh » 24 Dec 2020, 10:13pm

A while back I was on the popular lane out to Bolton abbey and accross the fields I spotted a group of roadies 3-4 and gave chase as you might...

Only when I got rather uncomfortably closer I realised they were in fact middle aged females and all but one riding hybrids / MTB. Have them a hearty morning as I went past, but did I feel a plonker!!

I'd never draft a female - creepy definitely!

Cheers James