Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

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Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Psamathe »

Not yet but being pushed by the Spanish Directorate General of Traffic
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-cycling-drivers-overtaking-b1793407.html wrote:Spain ‘to make it illegal’ for drivers not to slow down when overtaking cyclists
Spain is reportedly planning to introduce a new law that will make it illegal for drivers not to slow down when overtaking cyclists.

Current safety laws in the country already require motorists to leave a gap of 1.5 metres when trying to pass bikers on the road, even if this means crossing the unbroken white line in the middle of the road.

But the new amendment to Spain’s traffic regulations mean that drivers must slow down to below 20km the speed limit on that road to make a pass, as reported by motoring website Diario Motor.

The changes are being pushed by the DGT (Directorate General of Traffic), with the aim of helping to improve the safety of vulnerable road users in a country that is increasingly choosing to travel on two wheels.

Punishments for breaching the new rules have not yet been confirmed, but could include points deducted from your licence or fines. It is not yet clear when the new rules will come into force.
....


(Do move this to a more appropriate forum section is this is the wrong place for the subject)

EDIT: My "Not yet being pushed ..." is completely wrong as the article states "The changes are being pushed by the DGT (Directorate General of Traffic)". Oooophs.

Ian
Last edited by Psamathe on 30 Jan 2021, 12:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grandad
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Grandad »

Are the road rules enforced more rigidly in Spain?
thirdcrank
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by thirdcrank »

The quoted wording seems a bit garbled to me and I'm not sure how it might transfer to the UK.

Imagine a narrow rural road ie subject to National Speed Limit of 60mph. This might even be "single track with passing places." By my arithmetic, a driver overtaking a cyclist could do so at some 47mph and comply with this regulation. Admittedly, that's better than 60mph, but anything faster than a crawl in such circumstances is dangerous. IMO
Pete Owens
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Pete Owens »

Which is as silly as objecting to all speed limits as that means it is legal to drive over Hard Knot Pass at 59mph.
On a road such as you describe that the 1.5 m clearance means drivers are required to wait for a passing place to overtake - which means slowing down to the cyclists speed.

A more relevant objection would be for low speed limits (30kph/20mph) it would make overtaking impossible.
thirdcrank
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by thirdcrank »

I don't think it's silly at all. What it means is that starting from a system where the speed limits are still based on criteria which were simple and quick to implement almost 90 years ago ie the presence or otherwise of lampposts, the current speed limits are utterly useless as a starting point for safety measures in large parts of the road network.

I've absolutely no idea of the basis for setting speed limits in Spain, but the time has surely come for a proper review here. Actually, it has passed, in the sense that when New Labour swept to power on a misplaced sense of optimism, one of the "aspirations" was to do something about this very thing. Placeman Whitty was given the job, but nobody told him Blair had no interest in such things.

A tiny example of what I'm talking about was the campaign in which the CTC was involved to reduce the National Speed Limit on single track roads which was dismissed out-of-hand by the authorities. IIRC, reasons for that dismissal included that it's hard to understand. No centre marking = lower rural speed limit seems extremely clear to me.

After writing the above, I found this:-

The Minister for Road Safety, Lord Whitty, said that tackling speed limits in rural areas was a "very high priority" for the government


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/445175.stm
Lazycarton
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Lazycarton »

Psamathe wrote:Not yet but being pushed by the Spanish Directorate General of Traffic
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-cycling-drivers-overtaking-b1793407.html wrote:[b]

Current safety laws in the country already require motorists to leave a gap of 1.5 metres when trying to pass bikers on the road, even if this means crossing the unbroken white line in the middle of the road.

Ian


It is legal in the UK to cross a double white line when overtaking a cyclist, although in my experience very few motorists are aware of this.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/how- ... ver,km%2Fh
Pete Owens
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Pete Owens »

only if the cyclist is slower than 10mph
thirdcrank
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by thirdcrank »

I wonder if the Spanish legal system is rather more robust than our own? ie, less scope for loophole merchants to make a killing.

I get this line of thinking from the approach of the Spanish judge at the ECHR linked in an earlier thread

Tucked away towards the end (of the ECHR decision) ) is the concurring judgment of Judge Javier Borrego Borrego (Spain) who found for the UK but was unhappy with the arcane way his colleagues got there. With a directness worthy of a cycling forum, he quotes another bit of Lord Bingham's judgment

"All who own or drive motor cars know ... that by doing so they subject themselves to a regulatory regime ...”

Adding

...we must ask: why spend twelve pages trying to explain what everyone already knows?


viewtopic.php?p=1361778#p1361778
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by tykeboy2003 »

Lazycarton wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Not yet but being pushed by the Spanish Directorate General of Traffic
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-cycling-drivers-overtaking-b1793407.html wrote:[b]

Current safety laws in the country already require motorists to leave a gap of 1.5 metres when trying to pass bikers on the road, even if this means crossing the unbroken white line in the middle of the road.

Ian


It is legal in the UK to cross a double white line when overtaking a cyclist, although in my experience very few motorists are aware of this.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/how- ... ver,km%2Fh

As stated, it's only legal to cross the solid white line if the vehicle you are overtaking is travelling at less than 10mph. I get this happening to me at any speed I happen to be doing, including occasions when I've been doing at least 30mph.... I'm not sure what the situation would be if a collision occurred whilst legally overtaking a cyclist doing 9mph and crossing a solid white line. Presumably the driver would still be driving without due care....
Pebble
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Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Pebble »

tykeboy2003 wrote:
Lazycarton wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Not yet but being pushed by the Spanish Directorate General of Traffic


It is legal in the UK to cross a double white line when overtaking a cyclist, although in my experience very few motorists are aware of this.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/how- ... ver,km%2Fh

As stated, it's only legal to cross the solid white line if the vehicle you are overtaking is travelling at less than 10mph. I get this happening to me at any speed I happen to be doing, including occasions when I've been doing at least 30mph.... I'm not sure what the situation would be if a collision occurred whilst legally overtaking a cyclist doing 9mph and crossing a solid white line. Presumably the driver would still be driving without due care....

Yes to pass cyclist etc doing under 10mph, you're only allowed to cross it if it is safe to do so, which by the very nature of a double white line is arguably never.

It is difficult to know what to do when a car gets behind where there is solid white lines, keep in the side and you will get a very close pass as they squeeze past, keep in the middle of the lane and this will discourage most, but the the lunatic will still overtake possibly completely on the wrong side of the road coming into a blind bend. It always seems one of these lose lose situations
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by Psamathe »

Lazycarton wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Not yet but being pushed by the Spanish Directorate General of Traffic
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-cycling-drivers-overtaking-b1793407.html wrote:[b]

Current safety laws in the country already require motorists to leave a gap of 1.5 metres when trying to pass bikers on the road, even if this means crossing the unbroken white line in the middle of the road.

Ian


It is legal in the UK to cross a double white line when overtaking a cyclist, although in my experience very few motorists are aware of this.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/how- ... ver,km%2Fh

I made an error on my initial post: My "Not yet being pushed ..." is completely wrong as the article states "The changes are being pushed by the DGT (Directorate General of Traffic)". Oooophs. i've corrected the initial post.

Ian
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Slow Down For Cyclists To Become Law (in Spain)

Post by thirdcrank »

Here's me on an earlier thread about double white lines:-

... The double white central line thing is arguably an example of what's wrong with our system. Being on the wrong side of the road without a clear view of the road ahead is manifestly due care at a minimum, but hard to prove in the absence of a crash so the double white lines were introduced, which are "only" traffic signs. ...


viewtopic.php?p=1337948#p1337948

Another point which is IMO absolutely ... er .. . central to the way Spanish laws might work here is the sheer extent of the verbiage need in England and Wales to create such a straightforward regulation with necessary exceptions. I've cut-and-pasted the relevant bit of traffic signs regs, which has to be read in the light of s 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and s1 (?) of the Road Traffic (Offenders) Act 1988 (need for the service of an NIP). I cannot be bothered to re-format this guff

No stopping or crossing white line marking
9.—(1) The requirements conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by a road marking provided for at items 23 and 24 of the sign table in Part 6 of this Schedule are that—

(a)subject to sub-paragraphs (2) to (4), no vehicle is to stop on any length of road along which the marking has been placed at any point between the ends of the marking; and
(b)subject to sub-paragraph (5), every vehicle proceeding on any length of road along which the marking has been so placed, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line, must be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle.
(2) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(a) applies so as to prevent a vehicle stopping on any length of road so long as may be necessary for any of the purposes specified in sub-paragraph (3) if the vehicle cannot be used for such a purpose without stopping on the length of road.

(3) The purposes are—

(a)to enable a person to board or alight from the vehicle,
(b)to enable goods to be loaded on to or to be unloaded from the vehicle,
(c)to enable the vehicle to be used in connection with—
(i)any operation involving building, demolition or excavation;
(ii)the removal of any obstruction to traffic;
(iii)the maintenance, improvement or reconstruction of the length of road; or
(iv)the laying, erection, alteration, repair or cleaning in or near the length of road of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any electronic communications apparatus kept installed for the purposes of an electronic communications code system or of any other electronic communications apparatus lawfully kept installed in any position.
(4) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(a) applies—

(a)so as to prevent a vehicle stopping in a lay-by;
(b)to a vehicle being used for at least one of the following purposes—
(i)fire and rescue authority;
(ii)Scottish Fire and Rescue Service;
(iii)traffic officer;
(iv)ambulance;
(v)providing a response to an emergency at the request of an NHS ambulance service;
(vi)bomb or explosive disposal;
(vii)special forces;
(viii)police; and
(ix)National Crime Agency.
(c)to a pedal cycle;
(d)to a vehicle stopping in any case where the person in control of the vehicle is required by law to stop, or is obliged to do so in order to avoid an accident, or is prevented from proceeding by circumstances outside the person’s control;
(e)to anything done with the permission or at the direction of a constable in uniform, traffic officer in uniform or in accordance with the direction of a traffic warden; or
(f)to a vehicle on a road with more than one traffic lane in each direction.
(5) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(b) is to be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so—

(a)to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b)in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c)owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d)in order to avoid an accident;
(e)in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear a sign provided for at item 9 or 10 of the sign table in Part 6 of Schedule 13;
(f)in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g)in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h)for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform, a traffic officer in uniform or a traffic warden.
10. The warning conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by the road marking provided for at item 23 of the sign table in Part 6 of this Schedule is that no vehicle while travelling next to a broken line placed on the left of a continuous line, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, should cross or straddle the first-mentioned line unless it is seen by the driver of the vehicle to be safe to do so.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/made
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