Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

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thirdcrank
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Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by thirdcrank »

A cyclist killed a 73-year-old man after riding through a red light and leaving him "bleeding" in the road, a court has heard.

Ermir Loka, 23, of Manor Road, east London, is accused of the manslaughter of Peter McCombie, who was struck on Bow Road in Tower Hamlets on 3 July.

Mr McCombie died from severe brain injuries eight days after the crash.

Mr Loka denied manslaughter and causing bodily harm by wanton or furious driving at Snaresbrook Crown Court.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56320121
roberts8
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by roberts8 »

Seems fair to me on what I have read. If a member of Cuk would he still be covered as he seems to have contributed significantly?
Jdsk
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by Jdsk »

Covered for what... civil liability for damages?

Jonathan
hamster
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by hamster »

roberts8 wrote:Seems fair to me on what I have read. If a member of Cuk would he still be covered as he seems to have contributed significantly?


Criminal action is not covered by insurance policies - have a look at motor insurance cover for drink driving. It's void.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by [XAP]Bob »

The problem isn't that this prosecution is going ahead - it's that there are nearly two thousand road deaths a year which *don't* get similarly prosecuted or get the same media coverage...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Pebble
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by Pebble »

hamster wrote:
roberts8 wrote:Seems fair to me on what I have read. If a member of Cuk would he still be covered as he seems to have contributed significantly?


Criminal action is not covered by insurance policies - have a look at motor insurance cover for drink driving. It's void.

Even with DD I think they will still pay out to the 3rd party but they may try and recoup that loss from the driver.

I don't think they do this for other traffic offences - mistakenly jump a red light in your car and cause serious injury and I doubt your home is in danger of being confiscated.
cycle tramp
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by cycle tramp »

Firstly I'm sorry to hear of the passing of the gentleman. Any such death is always tragic.
Secondly as the trial continues, shall we refrain from further comment until the jury has reached its verdict?
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
hamster
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by hamster »

[XAP]Bob wrote:The problem isn't that this prosecution is going ahead - it's that there are nearly two thousand road deaths a year which *don't* get similarly prosecuted or get the same media coverage...


Spot on.
fastpedaller
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by fastpedaller »

I agree it's probably best to avoid the case details. What I'd like to know is.... what is the definition of Wanton & Furious? Is it just based on speed, speed or pedalling (low gear users beware) or just witness statements. I've heard of witnesses stating "a cyclist was going about 30MPH, they can you know" when the truth may be close to 20MPH at most, a lot slower than motorised traffic.
Jdsk
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by Jdsk »

fastpedaller wrote:What I'd like to know is.... what is the definition of Wanton & Furious?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causing_bodily_harm_by_wanton_or_furious_driving

Sentencing remarks in Alliston:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/sentencing-remarks-hhj-wendy-joseph-qc-r-v-alliston.pdf

Discussion of Hall and Alliston and "wanton and furious" in DfT Cycle Safety Review:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/685600/cycle-safety-review-report.PDF

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 10 Mar 2021, 10:04am, edited 2 times in total.
Pebble
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by Pebble »

I would presume it relies on circumstances, 20mph in a busy pedestrian only area would fit, 40mph on a quiet 'A' road wouldn't
thirdcrank
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by thirdcrank »

fastpedaller wrote: ... what is the definition of Wanton & Furious? ....


I worded this thread title to reflect this earlier one, which I see reached 71 pages.

viewtopic.php?p=1155053#p1155053

In that earlier case the rider was acquitted on the manslaughter charge but convicted of the furious driving. The law was discussed there at some length, as well as the deceased's widower's campaign to introduce an offence of causing death by dangerous cycling.
xerxes
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by xerxes »

fastpedaller wrote:I agree it's probably best to avoid the case details. What I'd like to know is.... what is the definition of Wanton & Furious? Is it just based on speed, speed or pedalling (low gear users beware) or just witness statements. I've heard of witnesses stating "a cyclist was going about 30MPH, they can you know" when the truth may be close to 20MPH at most, a lot slower than motorised traffic.

Speed doesn't appear to be the issue in this case, it's the fact that he allegedly went through a red light.
kwackers
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by kwackers »

xerxes wrote:Speed doesn't appear to be the issue in this case, it's the fact that he allegedly went through a red light.

I'm not sure legally there's much of a difference. You're doing something wrong and as a result someone dies.

The only mitigation you have is that as a cyclist the magnitude of your wrong doing isn't the same as someone in a much bigger vehicle.
fastpedaller
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Re: Another cyclist on trial for manslaughter

Post by fastpedaller »

I still don't think there's a definition of Wanton & Furious, except there appears a 'common thread' running through the cases where the defendants have been convicted - that of having defective or missing brakes and missing (not legally required) bells! There are many issues here, one being that if the law (pertaining to cyclist) was clarified, maybe only by removing the 'motorised vehicles' part of existing legislation, there may be more clarity. It's about as clear as mud though.
I put forward a scenario........ I sometimes pedal along a coastal road where it has become apparent that some pedestrians either think the road is pedestrianised to the exclusion of all traffic, or are otherwise distracted. When I cycle along it (at, I would suggest is sedate 10-15MPH) I am aware and ready to have to brake because of someone leaping into the road without warning. If one day a pedestrian collides with me, would I face the 'wanton & furious' charge? Am I expected to be ringing a bell continuously to warn the pedestrians - I consider 'covering the brake' to be better use of my hand.
Witness comments from pedestrians (non-cyclist motorists) could be 1) he had no bell. 2) He was riding very fast - a lot faster than I would ride 3) He had drop bars - it's a racing bike, so he was racing.
Discuss.
FP (maybe I should use a different alias :lol: but It refers to my rate of pedalling a low gear rather than my speed along the road)
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