How can I stop this happening?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
fastpedaller
Posts: 3435
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by fastpedaller »

Pete Owens wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 4:01pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 2:19pm
Pete Owens wrote: 21 Apr 2021, 12:08am
"plagued" sounds an odd word to use in that context.
I think that is the result of the close pass initiatives. Drivers are now more aware of the need to give us plenty of space - and if they overestimate it rather than underestimate it that is entirely to be welcomed.
One of the issues is that by turning down several opportunities to pass they act as a complete block on the road and can build up three or four additional vehicles behind them. The drivers of *those* vehicles then get irritated and assume that the law breaking and poor cyclist at the front must have been causing the problem, when in fact it was the motorist who didn't overtake.
It is the impatient drivers getting irritatated that is the problem - or rather the presumption on the part of slower drivers that following drivers are irritated and must be appeased irrespective of whether it is safe to do so.
This leads to:-
- cyclists riding in the gutter to avoid giving the appearance of holding up traffic.
- drivers going faster than they would judge to be safe in order to avoid slowing down a following driver
- drivers overtaking cyclists at unsafe places - not becase they are an agressive moron themselves, but because they assume the following driver is.

So if the close pass initiative is giving careful drivers the confidence to priorotise my safety over the presumed emotional state of other drivers then that is entirely to be welcomed.

And even if the following driver was an agressive moron who resented slowing down then the cautious driver is providing a useful service by acting as a barrier as they approach.
One problem is if the '2nd in line' doesn't appreciate why the first is going slowly, and overtakes the first and collides with the cyclists? Unfortunately there is no easy answer when someone is impatient! :(
emt15
Posts: 27
Joined: 29 Aug 2020, 6:02pm

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by emt15 »

why does the motorist need to overtake? cycle and take the full lane if anyone tries to overtake then block them! i think the impatient idiot motorist need to be taught a lesson
Stradageek
Posts: 1657
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by Stradageek »

And sometimes there is nothing you can do and you just have to laugh.....

Coming downhill at 20mph in a 20mph zone, my wife on a trike less than a car length ahead of me is in primary (as am I) and we're both signalling right and moving out to turn into our estate which is just around the blind bend we are currently negotiating.

And still someone behind starts to accelerate and overtake!!!!!

So I give the flapping hand 'slow down' signal but to no avail. She ends up stopping behind my wife, half across the oncoming lane as Jean is waiting for oncoming traffic before turning right. I'm beside her looking at a middle aged nurse mouthing 'what else am I supposed to do?'

Use the middle pedal, wait 5 seconds, many options are available. Still it was a lovely sunny bike ride, why let this spoil it :D
iandusud
Posts: 1577
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by iandusud »

Stradageek wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 12:35pm And sometimes there is nothing you can do and you just have to laugh.....

Coming downhill at 20mph in a 20mph zone, my wife on a trike less than a car length ahead of me is in primary (as am I) and we're both signalling right and moving out to turn into our estate which is just around the blind bend we are currently negotiating.

And still someone behind starts to accelerate and overtake!!!!!

So I give the flapping hand 'slow down' signal but to no avail. She ends up stopping behind my wife, half across the oncoming lane as Jean is waiting for oncoming traffic before turning right. I'm beside her looking at a middle aged nurse mouthing 'what else am I supposed to do?'

Use the middle pedal, wait 5 seconds, many options are available. Still it was a lovely sunny bike ride, why let this spoil it :D
Similar situation last week out on the tandem. Riding in a line of traffic approaching a roundabout where there is a queue of at least 20 cars. Riding at the pace of the other traffic and in primary position to discourage overtaking. Car behind starts to overtake so I do my usual thing of moving even further out and glaring at the driver (this usually works) who proceeds to accelerate past us and slam the brakes on to avoid colliding with the rear of the car in front who is now at a standstill in the queue for the roundabout. Obviously I had to brake sharply. We then overtake him to proceed to the front of the queue. What on earth did this driver achieve other than nearly causing an accident?
GideonReade
Posts: 410
Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by GideonReade »

May I ask a related question? Regarding the above, one phrase coming up is "driver thinking about overtaking...". Surely, at that point, the battle's half won? I reckon the bigger part of the problem is drivers not thinking they're overtaking. Maybe just not thinking.

So IMO there's nothing so reassuring as hearing a downshift.

To my question: I also ride a motorcycle, and, obviously, being much narrower, can sometimes safely overtake where a car can't (no, not on a blind bend or summit). Sometimes I can safely approach a bicycle and pass, when a car passing would be very unsafe and/or alarming. When I'm riding my bicycle, I reckon I can usually tell if it's a car or a motorcycle behind me, by ear. Useful information. Sometimes on the motorcycle, approaching cyclists, I'll throw in an unnecessary downshift to make it clearer I'm a motorcycle.

Can others tell the difference? Is the information useful? Am I spouting rubbish?

(And I always ride with a mirror, too, but that's another discussion, and doesn't negate my "by ear").
Marcus Aurelius
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Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Google ‘Ninja rocks’
GideonReade
Posts: 410
Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by GideonReade »

Hmm, well, if a car is far enough away that you can safely throw (even tiny) rocks at it, it's probably far enough away not to want to.
drossall
Posts: 6115
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by drossall »

GideonReade wrote: 1 May 2021, 7:54pmCan others tell the difference? Is the information useful? Am I spouting rubbish?
Potentially. Information is always useful. Sometimes, I'm able to work out by ear so clearly what a driver is doing that I don't need to look behind me. Occasionally, I 'll monitor a driver behind in that way, know that he (OK, I don't know it's he, but somehow it often is...) is just about to overtake through a section of narrowed road, and motion with my hand not to do so, all without ever looking behind. Generally works.

So knowing it's a motorbike could help. Often though the engine note is different anyway. Frankly, so is the approach speed... I'm trying to think of a case where I've actually spotted the difference by ear though. Doesn't happen often enough to give an answer based on actual experience.
Vorpal
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Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by Vorpal »

GideonReade wrote: 1 May 2021, 7:54pm To my question: I also ride a motorcycle, and, obviously, being much narrower, can sometimes safely overtake where a car can't (no, not on a blind bend or summit). Sometimes I can safely approach a bicycle and pass, when a car passing would be very unsafe and/or alarming. When I'm riding my bicycle, I reckon I can usually tell if it's a car or a motorcycle behind me, by ear. Useful information. Sometimes on the motorcycle, approaching cyclists, I'll throw in an unnecessary downshift to make it clearer I'm a motorcycle.

Can others tell the difference? Is the information useful? Am I spouting rubbish?
Sometimes I can tell the difference? The information is potentially useful, but I'm not sure how much it really helps in practice?

If there are lots of other noises about, wind noise, traffic noise, other machinery, etc. I might not be able to hear it, let alone tell the difference, unless maybe it's a Harley :lol: But generally yes, I can tell the difference, and slightly prefer to have a motorcyclist behind me than someone driving a car or larger vehicle. I suspect that the ratio of impatient stupidity is similar across all groups of road users, but motorcyclists a) are more likely to be able to get around with room to spare and b) understand the vulnerability of 2 wheels. In my personal experience, the ratio of good to bad overtakes is a bit better for motorcyclists than drivers of larger vehicles, though motorcyclists are disproportionately represented in my list of memorably bad overtakes.

In practice, however, a motorcyclist is only different by the amount of space they need, or I need to give them.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
ClappedOut
Posts: 585
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by ClappedOut »

Today we went out for the ice cream treat and we ride with 9 year old in the middle.

We were riding a narrow B road in the town upto a roundabout and knowing that there is a temptation to gun it past us we ride wide as we are on final closing on the roundabout so the car can’t dive into the space my son occupies.

Today we have a muppet stopped on wrong side of the road as they almost hit the oncoming car.

So our riding kept son safe, but appalled at standard of driving.

Wish we had footage as seriously dangerous.
awavey
Posts: 300
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by awavey »

Vorpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 12:55pm
GideonReade wrote: 1 May 2021, 7:54pm To my question: I also ride a motorcycle, and, obviously, being much narrower, can sometimes safely overtake where a car can't (no, not on a blind bend or summit). Sometimes I can safely approach a bicycle and pass, when a car passing would be very unsafe and/or alarming. When I'm riding my bicycle, I reckon I can usually tell if it's a car or a motorcycle behind me, by ear. Useful information. Sometimes on the motorcycle, approaching cyclists, I'll throw in an unnecessary downshift to make it clearer I'm a motorcycle.

Can others tell the difference? Is the information useful? Am I spouting rubbish?
Sometimes I can tell the difference? The information is potentially useful, but I'm not sure how much it really helps in practice?

If there are lots of other noises about, wind noise, traffic noise, other machinery, etc. I might not be able to hear it, let alone tell the difference, unless maybe it's a Harley :lol: But generally yes, I can tell the difference, and slightly prefer to have a motorcyclist behind me than someone driving a car or larger vehicle. I suspect that the ratio of impatient stupidity is similar across all groups of road users, but motorcyclists a) are more likely to be able to get around with room to spare and b) understand the vulnerability of 2 wheels. In my personal experience, the ratio of good to bad overtakes is a bit better for motorcyclists than drivers of larger vehicles, though motorcyclists are disproportionately represented in my list of memorably bad overtakes.
the weird thing is I dont know if Im just being unfair on motorcyclists because I feel they should understand 2 wheel vulnerability more than cars and so I hold them to a higher standard, but I feel Im rarely treated to a pass by a motorcyclist that falls in the "they get it" category, and plenty that fall in the disappointing bucket shall we say.

still nothing as bad as what 4 wheeled motorists can dish out,but Ive had a few where I thought it was just unnecessary the way it was done
GideonReade
Posts: 410
Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: How can I stop this happening?

Post by GideonReade »

I know what you mean. I don't think I'm a very typical motorcyclist - only started a few years ago, been cycling for decades.

In the wealthy west motorcycles are a pastime rather than transport, and it's a rather speed focused culture. So I suspect most UK motorcyclists are very much in an overtaking frame of mind, not a being overtaken mindset. Not much shared philosophy there.

I suspect the commonly worst passes of cyclists, whatever vehicle does it, are those where the driver isn't thinking "I'm overtaking" at all.
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